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+--- Thread: Hilo Band Stand Oct 15 @ 2 pm Join the Movement (/showthread.php?tid=9378)
RE: Hilo Band Stand Oct 15 @ 2 pm Join the Movement - Peter Epperson - 10-19-2011
Wow. Daniels list of things to ponder and questions to answer made me want to assume the fetal position and hide. Do we really have to articulate and qualify each of these items before we can bitch about a system gone mad? I can add to his list but I don't think it will bring any clarity. While the specifics of OWS haven't been clearly laid out, I think that there is a particular revulsion towards those who turned our financial system into a private gambling club. They create toxic loans. They sell toxic loans. They bet against toxic loans. And when they are presented with the possibility that said toxic loans won't earn them a larger profit than they imagined then they cry "too big too fail" and we give them 700 billion dollars which they divvy up amongst themselves. I have no gripes about the Wall Street that was the engine that financed our industry. I'm bitching about those bankers who prefer to increase their wealth by totally disregarding the industries that need their help. Very secure businesses can't borrow money now because they can't deliver the same return as some abstract, computer generated gambling scheme/game that can only be played by those in the private club.
How about a little sensible regulation?
RE: Hilo Band Stand Oct 15 @ 2 pm Join the Movement - Rob Tucker - 10-19-2011
I see the general problem in rather simple terms. There are basically four ways to acquire wealth.
1. inherit money
2. crime, steal money
3. create wealth by your labors, honest investment or intellect
4. manipulate other people's money
It is my opinion that the system is skewed in favor of the manipulators for a long time. Nationwide and here in Hawaii as well. The manipulators have been getting away with the largest theft of wealth in history.
Creators of wealth, in my opinion, comprise a broad spectrum of industrious people. Farmers, manufacturers, inventors, writers, workers, etc. These are the foundation of a nations prosperity. These people add to the national dinner table.
Manipulators: Financial schemers, insurance scams, government contract scams, welfare cheats, derivative brokers, people who trade stocks in nanoseconds by computer. These are the folks that have manipulated the system to pay themselves without regard for their contribution to society. They take away from the national dinner table.
So I am not an advocate for a welfare state or for free everything for everybody. I am an advocate for close examination of our national system of rewards, responsibilities and penalties. Just cause the banking lobbyists made something marginally legal does not serve our national interest. There are people who should be stripped of their ill gotten gains and sent to prison.
Occupy Wall St. Right on! Occupy Hilo? Occupy America? Sure, you bet.
RE: Hilo Band Stand Oct 15 @ 2 pm Join the Movement - punaticbychoice - 10-19-2011
Thanks Rob for some plain statements.
RE: Hilo Band Stand Oct 15 @ 2 pm Join the Movement - Radiopeg - 10-20-2011
quote:
Originally posted by whalesong
_*Congressional Reform Act of 2011*
While the theory is good, the facts are murky. Try to goggle it.
Yeah, I like the idea of taking away the perks when they act like this.
RE: Hilo Band Stand Oct 15 @ 2 pm Join the Movement - Kelena - 10-20-2011
Rock on, Rob.
As for Daniel, the greatest danger to your neighbors isn't capitalism, it's CAPITALIZATION.
RE: Hilo Band Stand Oct 15 @ 2 pm Join the Movement - missydog1 - 10-20-2011
LOL, Kelena.
Yeah, tried to read it Daniel, but the all caps made my eyes scream.
Rob, I absolutely agree with what you said about the manipulators of wealth.
That book I recommended earlier, by Paul Krugman, has a chapter called "banking in the shadows" that I found enlightening. It refers to nondepository institutions that are not subject to banking regulations, even though they act as de facto banks. The non-bank financial system, which as he explains had great vulnerability to "runs" or panic, but were not required to have any of the protections that banking reform laws of this century put in place to avoid a repeat of the great crash.
For example, the auction-rate security system, which had 400 billion dollars in it, collapsed in 2008. I'd never even heard of this stuff before I read the book. Just one example of the many things on the margins that went wrong and had huge consequences on the regulated banking system.
Also the ripoff of the national pension systems: supposedly safe because they purchased only AAA securities, folding because the CDO (collateralized debt obligation) system wasn't really safe and the pensions ended up owning lots and lots of subprime mortgages that went into default.
So many people manipulating investments and risk -- that is what made things go under. It was a giant Ponzi scheme. People like to blame flippers, but those were the small fry (and what is wrong with renovating property?).