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+--- Thread: Honk if you don't like the Shores speed bumps (/showthread.php?tid=9453)
RE: Honk if you don't like the Shores speed bumps - Guest - 11-04-2011
quote:
Originally posted by ericlp
There are two sides to every story... Now as soon as I get my train horns installed.... Should be interesting to see what happens @ 3AM ...
Now that is what I am talking about! We are going to need bigger horns! I will sleep well at night hearing those horns go off at 3 AM.
RE: Honk if you don't like the Shores speed bumps - critterlover - 11-04-2011
@Punafish, From your mouth to God's ears! If only. In the short spate I have been engaged in this community -- relative to my whole life -- I have come to appreciate the abundance of wealth in treasures of the souls with whom I have served and most cases for whom I served. Irrespective of all demographics each soul has brought to bear such introspect and charity that my life has been enriched. Seriously, the level of compassion and the desire for community has from time to time popped up and refreshed those it touched. As in all situations from core family to community local, state or national, there will be those who see the 'live and let live' philosophy of most as a vulnerability to exploit and they set out to accomplish some self interest leveraging the power of the community with its treasures to their own ends. But I am reminded that 'this too shall pass.' The words of Shakespeare have oft induced contemplation and thus I am reminded: "How poor are they that have not patience! What wound did ever heal but by degrees?" Alas, we must be patient as things in the community self adjust and a sense of community continues to thrive as it bubbles forth from fresh springs in different neighborhoods.
It may seem as though the Speed Humps issue is being 'overblown' to some who may or may not live here locally or proximate to Papio, and if one zooms out to take in the broader picture of 'world problems' it may seem the Speed Humps issue is trivial. From a philosophical perspective it may simply be symptomatic of a world laden with such huge problems some believe they cannot begin to affect positively so they work at fixing things they can on a local level. But, isn't that how most people view the building blocks of our global community is by dealing with things from the smallest unit that can be influenced? First the family then the local community?
On the Speed Humps issue, I have a copy of the Speed Hump Policy that is now 'in force' and interestingly the paperwork being handed out contains information about the detrimental impact of the use of such traffic calming devices. Of the 6 disadvantages listed 4 of them have found their way into the discussion on this and one other thread. Data from ITE is contained within the Policy that provides the positive AND negative aspects. The only 2 concerns not yet discussed here is the impact on school and transit buses and hazards to cyclists, be it bicycle or motorcycle. At the local level, the level that most immediately impacts the quality of life both for those who live on the street under discussion and those who live on or nearby the streets now being affected, the time has come for the community to come together and engage in dialogue. For those directly impacted one way or another it is a problem one party has resolved to its intended purpose, to slow traffic; the other party is just now emerging having been called out of their peaceful and quiet lives to resolve it equably. It is not a case of 'much ado about nothing' but rather an opportunity for the community to act as a community with open dialogue with its leadership. The honking? I see it as a 'warning' or an 'acknowledgement' that some of the community find the issue problematic. In any case, however this is resolved it begins Thursday evening at 6P Nov 10 at the regular monthly Board meeting. For those who will be testifying to this issue a trip to the business office and a request for a copy of the proposed Speed Hump Policy may be enlightening. There is proviso for removal within the context of the policy.
I am not bound to please thee with my answer. -- William Shakespeare
RE: Honk if you don't like the Shores speed bumps - critterlover - 11-04-2011
@Ericlp "Now as soon as I get my train horns installed.... Should be interesting to see what happens @ 3AM"
Really? Train horn? I can just see it now...somewhere nestled under the large branches of some stocky plant a family of slumbering mongoose will startle awake at the frightening and unfamiliar sound of a train horn. Imagine, train horns blasting at 3 am ...now imagine mongoose suffering from PTSD. Aye, aye aye...
It may be an interesting phenomena the first time it happens actually. Sleeping away...thousands of miles away from the nearest rail station or tracks and you hear the horn! Nostalgia? Or NIGHTMARE on Papio street and surrounding neighborhoods. Our home in San Diego was miles from the tracks that were once used by trains but later for the trolly. Miles away. In the deep of night you could hear the train horn. Miles away. Like, more miles away than I live from the ocean, miles away.
I am not bound to please thee with my answer. -- William Shakespeare
RE: Honk if you don't like the Shores speed bumps - jackson - 11-05-2011
Rather than start a "war" and one will start with honking, why not just go out in the wee hours and remove the speed bumps? If they go up again, take them out. I once lived in a neighborhood where cares would speed through at rush hour to avoid a traffic light. They would run a stop sign and endanger anyone in their path. We asked the township for speed bumps but they refused. We made our own.
RE: Honk if you don't like the Shores speed bumps - Greg - 11-05-2011
Better yet; since the bumps are so successful on Papio at diverting speeding traffic, why not install them on Puna Coastal? Speed bumps work. They only damage cars that are "speeding". Late for work? First; relax. Second; leave for work a minute early.
You don't seem to be protesting anything but your own slight inconvenience. Why not be active against dangers in your neighborhood rather than working to dismantle attempts at safety?
RE: Honk if you don't like the Shores speed bumps - jackson - 11-05-2011
great point Greg. Check out the speed bumps on N. Kulani. They work great at slowing people down around children and pets and as far as I know, no complaints.
RE: Honk if you don't like the Shores speed bumps - Whitey - 11-05-2011
If the members put their heads together they could find a solution. OOPS! The members weren't consulted about this decision. A handful of people in the neighborhood decided for the membership that speed bumps was the best way to deal with the problem. No studies, no reports, no questions about changing the personality of our community. Just a few people deciding the outcome for ~1200 properties who share ownership of the road. If you OWN something, shouldn't you at least be asked if it is okay with you to change it?
What dangers? No children within several blocks! Pets shouldn't be left to wander the streets. I ask again...what dangers? How were they identified? Are we talking about speeding cars? How many? How fast? Define speeding? When was input on how to deal with these dangers sought? Did the people on Papio consult with the neighbors on Coastal Puna before the decisions were made? Isn't the logical mandate to gather as many "stakeholders" as possible to identify solutions? What about the users who are not owners of the road? If these dangers are so great, why would you, as a Board entrusted with working in the best interests of the ENTIRE membership, move the dangers to another street (other members) without having a plan to deal with the dangers? This is not a solution to a problem, it is a diversion of a problem to someone else!
The protest isn't about a "slight inconvenience" it is about the flourishing habit of disenfranchising the members!
A Board of Directors making decisions that directly affect THEIR properties and negatively impact others properties is a BREACH OF THEIR FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITIES to the membership.
This is the same procedure used to develop the Papio Ocean Park - no public meetings about what would be done there and no conflict of interest statements! Members asked when the Ocean Park meetings were happening and the President said - Oh, Pat and I talk almost everyday, either on my lanai or his. (two board members who live across the street from the Park). No development meetings were EVER held that invited members input. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with the concept of the park. But if you are going to use my money to develop a park in my community, then I should have SOME input on what amenities will be there.
Understand that the speed bumps were approved by the Board, for the Board, and of the Board. That isn't going to fly with me. The Board is travelling down a slippery slope and not all the members want to follow. But the Board doesn't know because they don't ask and when they are told, they don't listen.
Sad...sad indeed
RE: Honk if you don't like the Shores speed bumps - Whitey - 11-05-2011
quote:
Originally posted by Greg
Better yet; since the bumps are so successful on Papio at diverting speeding traffic, why not install them on Puna Coastal? Speed bumps work. They only damage cars that are "speeding". Late for work? First; relax. Second; leave for work a minute early.
You don't seem to be protesting anything but your own slight inconvenience. Why not be active against dangers in your neighborhood rather than working to dismantle attempts at safety?
Good Point Greg!
I will now become active against the dangers in my community!
A call to all guerrilla speed bump installers...Let's all meet on Hwy 130 at the Malama Marketplace intersection (the most dangerous strip of highway in the state) and we can install speed bumps from the Police station to just past the HAAS school road.
No traffic studies, no concern for how this might affect others, let's just go out there and make this highway safe! [
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RE: Honk if you don't like the Shores speed bumps - Guest - 11-05-2011
Whitey, you make a lot of good points. I am not one for local politics, I just feel neighbors should be nice to neighbors and not negatively influence their world. I walk every day on Coastal Puna and I have animals that are equivalent to my own children. Before I did not feel there was a problem on Papio, I think if the proper studies had been done it would prove this. Now the entire neighborhood is dealing with traffic that should not be there. I did not walk much on Papio, but now I don't want to walk anywhere. My cat is smart enough to stay off a busy road, but now all the roads are busy, he is trapped. Some of you folks refuse to hear the "bad news" and only want to hear positive solutions right? Not that is matters on the internet... Here is how I would have slowed traffic on Papio without diverting it and without making the coastal highway look like ****. TREES. If they had spent their money to place Trees along Papio near the edge of the road, the traffic would have naturally slowed from the phycological constriction of space around the road. Thats it, influence the traffic, don't fight it. I hope people plan to show up to the meeting next Thursday at six.
RE: Honk if you don't like the Shores speed bumps - Guest - 11-05-2011
Now for those of you suggesting the speed bumps aren't such a big deal, and that we should just pay thousands of dollars to have them installed on Coastal puna.... Why should anyone who is a normal driver be slowed down at all? Why give up any of our liberties? I enjoy driving 30 MPH down the road, it was not a problem before. First you need to establish there is a problem before you make a dramatic sacrifice like speed bumps. The bumps look horrible, paint allover the road, signs everywhere. They make the traffic twice as loud, and many times more inefficient. An average car driving 30 MPH is getting around 50 MPG and emitting very few emissions, the speed bumps bring that average down into the teens for MPG and increase emissions significantly. For a big truck you would not believe the **** they are spewing accelerating from each bump, not to mention massive amounts of noise. Coastal puna certainly did not have a traffic problem, it does now, so does every street leading from Papio before each and every bump.
First establish there is a problem(there isnt) and if there is find a way to influence the traffic without fighting and punishing it.(trees by the side of the road)
Overall this is a philosophical issue, people think they can control everything, they can't. Work with nature, don't fight it. Living with aloha means you aren't trying to control everything around you, you embrace nature for what it is, good and bad. Forgive the bad and revel in the good. Trying to control things only leads to more problems down the road....(PUN intended)