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+--- Thread: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition (/showthread.php?tid=15831)
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Wao nahele kane - 05-19-2015
Tom,
It has to do with why TMT is sitting on hold. It's caught up in a struggle that's been brewing for over a century and has become as diverse as the Hawaiian story itself. It's because those issue have yet to find resolve that the TMT had even become a matter of such contention.
As per any issues the scientific community might find applicable within that sea of oppositions, theirs would not have carried the weight they do today without the continued struggle for the greater unified resolve and the TMT would have already broken ground.
Therein lay the current dilemma, the scientific community is attempting to dissect that which has never been dissectible. It's all one in the same and no matter what issue the scientific community accepts as the point, it will still rest in the greater principle of opprobrium.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-19-2015
Kane, mahalo, and I understand somewhat your position. May not agree with all of it, however, appreciate the effort.
Tonight is the first meeting in Laupahoehoe to work towards common ground.
(*Snipped - more at link)
Starting on Tuesday, HHCDC will present the first in a series of four events presenting both sides of the Thirty Meter Telescope debate, called “TMT & Maunakea: Common Ground”.
Most of the meetings will be held at Laupahoehoe Community Public Charter School Cafeteria and will run from 6:30 pm to 9:00 pm. The second meeting, however, will take place at the Kulaimano Community Center in Pepe’ekeo. Big Island Video News plans to film as many of the meetings as possible.
See more at: http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2015/05/15/thirty-meter-telescope-common-ground-meetings-set-for-hamakua/#sthash.W4kz9to0.dpuf
JMO.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-19-2015
Of course, I knew this when I posted it. And yes, that will be it. I don't find it enjoyable feeding leeches.
75% of the universe is composed of dark matter. An undefinable substance currently recognized only by it's gravitational affects on other bodies. Objects near dark matter may change their motion or even get slightly bent out of shape.
I can't be certain, but the quote above might reveal detectable affects of the stuff as it passed by.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - PunaMauka2 - 05-19-2015
"...and a growing number of astronomers are now at odds with the project, too."
uh oh!
----------------------
"But indigenous Hawaiians claim that Mauna Kea – their spiritual and cultural pinnacle – is being desecrated, and a growing number of astronomers are now at odds with the project, too."
On 6 May, Megan Urry, president of the American Astronomical Society (AAS), released a statement in which she underlined the diversity in the astronomical community. "I tell all of you, very clearly," she wrote, "that racism is unacceptable, that referring to groups as monolithic is not acceptable, and that the AAS is firmly committed to an inclusive, welcoming, professional environment."
"referring to groups as monolithic is not acceptable" + "indigenous Hawaiians claim that Mauna Kea – their spiritual and cultural pinnacle – is being desecrated".
hmmm
--------------------
source: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2015/may/18/email-triggers-row-over-hawaii-telescope#comments
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 05-19-2015
"I can't be certain, but the quote above might reveal detectable affects of the stuff as it passed by."
Now this is an interesting idea. Attaching PT to one of our instrument ports as a dark matter detector. I'll need to write a proposal and the science case could be tough to write but the project title will be easy. "An Evidence-Resistant Device to be Used as a Dark Matter Detector."
As for the science case, maybe I should frame it terms of quantum mechanics where common sense doesn't always explain observations.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 05-19-2015
Jeez,
"TMT to be erected inside crater of volcano in Mauna Kea faces strong criticism"
http://nycity.today/content/281915-tmt-be-erected-inside-crater-volcano-mauna-kea-faces-strong-criticism
Inside a crater?
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Guest - 05-19-2015
Good to hear meetings are taking place again between Tmt and Maunakea protectors. Great news to hear they are taking place here on the east side in Laupahoehoe, even a better place would be here in hilo? Been hearing plenty of people wanting to see compromise between the parties but not many really know how, why, or what of exactly?
Some ideas I have heard have been pretty good like, build the TMT while decommissioning 3-5 of the current and soon to be out dated telescopes atop maunakea? Some say the decommissioned telescopes would be great for local public and charter school children use? Others have said let them build the Tmt on merit,promises, and good faith. Some say start fresh in five to ten years with new permits and contracts. Most locals or Hawaiians I LISTEN to say those same famous words spoken by childhood disney movie character Pinocchio's good friend and conscious, the cricket," Enough is Enough already".
Saw where the county and state are very thankful and somewhat dependent on the observatories community spending? The united states government pays about $ 30,000,000 million a year in salaries alone to the good science folks from around the world who work in the 13 currently operating telescopes atop maunakea. thats about $ 80,000 a year for each planet or star researcher currently working atop maunakea before the building of the Tmt. If Hawaii loses these observatories, they lose the hundreds of workers who spend some of their money here.
Jmo here of course, good riddance and go back to where you came from. These so called science folks with degrees from classrooms around the world are taking jobs from locals. They are renting or buying the few available or affordable homes in the area while keeping the prices high for locals. They are helping the areas restaurants and grocery markets continue with the food inflation despite lower gas prices. Some of our islands public schools like Pahoa have free lunch for almost every keiki now and most locals qualify for ebt even though they work full time somewhere other than maunakea. When hawaii( big island)agreed to the first experimental observatory atop maunakea some 60 years ago, it was a special and very enchanting place most only visited or dreamed of. Now some 60 years later that old saying holds more merit than ever "If you have seen Waikiki you have seen hawaii?."
Jmo, Old Hawaii is at risk of being lost forever with the building of the Tmt. Hawaiian culture, beliefs, and general laid back hawaiian spirit, feeling, aloha, or vibe will be one step closer to extinction for many from here. Maunakeas secrets, wonders, world elusiveness as well as HA(breath) taking beauty will all but be exploited, abused, and altered by the TMT project.
P.S. sure would like to sit in one of those meetings, thats if they creap any closer to these highly affected parts of the island.
P.S.S. I thought maunakea had over 150 vents or craters or a ring of fire vents in the proposed TMT location? Only the highest ranks walked the trails to the gods, now anyone can drive?
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Mtviewdude - 05-20-2015
I will try and say this without my usual snark. I grew up in Hawaii, Hawaii is the only home I have ever known, all my family is here, my children were born in hilo medical center. Half the people I went to high school with are no longer here, they have moved to the mainland. Only 2 of my college friends are still left in Hawaii. Most of those that have stayed, did so, because of family or opportunities.
We (my family) have already decided to move away from Hawaii when my children get old enough (and we can manage it financially).
The reason i say this, Hawaii is not a great place to give kids a future, I want my children to success. You keep yammering on for the keiki, while constantly destroying any future they may have. Many of the people leaving are those born and raised here, know Hawaii backwards and are part of the local culture. As more of the local kids are leaving, more of the mainland transplants you despise so much are coming in. You are hastening the demise of the local culture. When we go, we will sell our house to more mainlanders, and they will further californize it.
You are already seeing it happen to Hilo. Look at the new mainlander stores kreeping up. You might win against TMT but you have already lost.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - punaticbychoice - 05-20-2015
Mtviewdude:
I fear you are right.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Lodestone - 05-20-2015
quote:I just tried that and now my eye hurts. Kudos to Tom and all others who bravely do this impossible thing, day after day.
Originally posted by pahoated
Close one eye, find something to look at in front of you, then look at something behind you at the same time. That is a telescope.