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+--- Thread: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition (/showthread.php?tid=15831)
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-21-2015
FYI: Videos of guest speakers at the first in a series of meetings held in Laupahoehoe:
(*Snipped - More at links)
The first of four highly anticipated TMT & Maunakea: Common Ground talks was held Tuesday night in Lauphaoehoe. The meetings are being organized by the Hilo-Hamakua Community Development Corporation. The organization is hoping to bring the community together on the highly divisive issue. Both sides of the argument – for and against building the $1.4 billion project on Mauna Kea – were represented.
1) Lanakila Mangauil - Protestor/protectors Representative
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2015/05/20/video-lanakila-mangauil-on-culture-tmt-maunakea-common-ground/
2) Paul Coleman - Astrophysicist at UH:
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2015/05/20/video-paul-coleman-on-science-tmt-maunakea-common-ground/
3) Stephanie Nagata - Administrator, Office Mauna Kea Management
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2015/05/20/video-stephanie-nagata-on-omkm-tmt-maunakea-common-ground/
Mahalo to Big Island Video News for the coverage.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-21-2015
FYI: (*Snipped - More at link/BBM)
Work Continues on TMT:
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/20150520_despite_mauna_kea_pause_work_continues_on_thirty_meter_telescope.html?id=304505781
In addition, other international partners are moving ahead on developing the components of the telescope, according to TMT International Observatory, the nonprofit limited liability company founded a year ago to carry out the construction and operation phases:
>> In India, fabrication of the mirror support system continues.
>> In China, partners are designing the telescope’s fully articulated main science steering mirror system and developing the laser guide star system.
>> In Japan, over 60 special zero thermal-expansion glass mirror blanks for the main mirror have been produced and the telescope structure is being designed in detail.
>> In California, the primary mirror and mirror control system is also in final design.
Last month, Canadian leaders announced that Canada would provide $243.5 million to the project over the next decade. Canadian companies are scheduled to build the telescope enclosure and the adaptive optics system.
“Canada is proud to be an official partner in this revolutionary facility that has the potential to transform our understanding of the universe,” federal Industry Minister James Moore said in a statement.
Most of the money will be spent in Canada, creating high-tech jobs in the telescope’s construction and assembly, according to the prime minister’s office.
Of note, this 1.4 BILLION dollars number being thrown around does NOT mean it is spent here in Hawai'i. Big misconception for a lot of people. What trickles down to us here is lease rent, education "donations/funding", which is minimal compared to the overall costs (don't just mean the almighty "dollar/yen/loonie, etc.").
JMO.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - kalakoa - 05-21-2015
What trickles down to us here is lease rent
Just like the big-box stores on DHHL land, but at least they pay property taxes.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-21-2015
Of note, this 1.4 BILLION dollars number being thrown around does NOT mean it is spent here in Hawai'i. Big misconception for a lot of people. What trickles down to us here is lease rent, education "donations/funding", which is minimal compared to the overall costs
But isn't that true about anything in East Hawaii?
Walmart for instance. Local contractors were hired in the construction process, but the walls, roofing materials, fixtures, all of those items were built elsewhere, just like components of the TMT. What about the items now sold in the store, how much is made by local people in Hawaii?
The same can be said about a "local" store like HPM. Most everything they sell is shipped in.
The difference is what trickles down from the TMT to local education is far more than donations Walmart or HPM make to local schools. Probably far more than all the donations made by every business on the island added together.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-21-2015
quote:Aloha kakahiaka, HOTPE, keep in mind I SUPPORT THE TMT. Walmart/HPM are not built on "Conservation" designation/zoning is more the concern, worse, DHHL is in charge of that crap, and Walmart got a GREAT deal in their lease years ago (O/T). The price apparently goes up (ie. educational "donations") if the project needs to be approved on lands (Ceded lands, too) appropriated as "Conservation".
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
Of note, this 1.4 BILLION dollars number being thrown around does NOT mean it is spent here in Hawai'i. Big misconception for a lot of people. What trickles down to us here is lease rent, education "donations/funding", which is minimal compared to the overall costs
But isn't that true about anything in East Hawaii?
Walmart for instance. Local contractors were hired in the construction process, but the walls, roofing materials, fixtures, all of those items were built elsewhere, just like components of the TMT. What about the items now sold in the store, how much is made by local people in Hawaii?
The same can be said about a "local" store like HPM. Most everything they sell is shipped in.
The difference is what trickles down from the TMT to local education is far more than donations Walmart or HPM make to local schools. Probably far more than all the donations made by every business on the island added together.
JMO.
ETA: Kalakoa, no kidding. Oh, and in your experience, do you happen to know how to measure testosterone that seems to be in great magnitude around here lately? (j/k, sorry, but this thread is getting difficult to respond to anymore. [xx(])
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - kalakoa - 05-21-2015
do you happen to know how to measure testosterone
Sure! The labs at East Hawaii Medical Center ... oh, right.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 05-21-2015
Walmart/HPM are not built on "Conservation" designation/zoning
Thanks ophikao, yes I know you've said you support the TMT. I just wanted to point out that there are similarities between total project costs vs local benefits when you compare the TMT to other construction on the island. I thought it was a valid point.
Then you added:
"donations/funding", which is minimal compared to the overall costs
Donations by other projects are far more minimal, but every person has a different idea of what is a lot or a little, or why it should be more. As you say it's getting difficult to respond anymore without every hair being split, every sentence and phrase being parsed. I didn't think I was being difficult, I was just trying to provide some context to your comment about the $1.4 billion by providing a comparison to other projects.
Without that context, it is difficult to discuss whether the TMT donations are "minimal compared to the overall costs."
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - PunaMauka2 - 05-21-2015
now what is the connection between TMT being permitted to become operational "on 'Conservation' designation/zoning" and "...this 1.4 BILLION dollars number being thrown around does NOT mean it is spent here in Hawai'i. Big misconception for a lot of people."?
---
added italics.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-21-2015
quote:HOTPE, you're not ever "being difficult", in fact, appreciate civil discourse/discussion (including a bit of levity which you always provide. Mahalo). We look at things with a different "eye" perhaps, and at least we can discuss differences with respect.
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
Walmart/HPM are not built on "Conservation" designation/zoning
Thanks ophikao, yes I know you've said you support the TMT. I just wanted to point out that there are similarities between total project costs vs local benefits when you compare the TMT to other construction on the island. I thought it was a valid point.
Then you added:
"donations/funding", which is minimal compared to the overall costs
Donations by other projects are far more minimal, but every person has a different idea of what is a lot or a little, or why it should be more. As you say it's getting difficult to respond anymore without every hair being split, every sentence and phrase being parsed. I didn't think I was being difficult, I was just trying to provide some context to your comment about the $1.4 billion by providing a comparison to other projects.
Others, not so much. Just sayin'. Have a lovely day all.
kalakoa, right? (lol).
JMO.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - kalakoa - 05-21-2015
"on 'Conservation' designation/zoning"
Conservation land usually doesn't allow any development (see, it's right there in the designation).
1.4 BILLION dollars
Any project with enough "value proposition" can get special land-use waivers; this "value" can include both non-monetary compensation (bragging rights) and vague promises of indirect trickle-down (jobs, theoretical increase in tax base).
TMT being permitted to become operational
As an extra added bonus, it's all State land, so any use allowed by State automatically supersedes County zoning/planning. If allowed to participate, County permitting/building will be similarly hamstrung, in part because they don't have any inspectors qualified for "a TMT".