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+--- Thread: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition (/showthread.php?tid=15831)
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 05-21-2015
Opihikao,
"Of note, this 1.4 BILLION dollars number being thrown around does NOT mean it is spent here in Hawai'i. Big misconception for a lot of people. What trickles down to us here is lease rent, education "donations/funding", which is minimal compared to the overall costs (don't just mean the almighty "dollar/yen/loonie, etc.")."
You are quite correct to point out all that money is not going to be spent here. It's the nature of the beast. The facilities, technological knowledge and infrastructure to design and build the telescope mirror segments and instrumentation simply doesn't exist here. I wish it did, but the political environment here has never allowed that.
However, there is more to just rent and educational donations. Construction of the TMT will pay the wages of many local workers. When the TMT approaches an operational state wages will be paid to local workers.
The current observatories have roughly 50% of their employees from the local community who grew up here. Most of the others employed live here. The largest part of our observatory's budget is staff wages and is likely the same for the others (not sure about the TMT in its early commissioning phase).
That money is spent here. Millions of dollars every year that goes into the local economy.
I don't think you should ignore that.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - punaticbychoice - 05-21-2015
TomK@ 23:11:06
Very strongly agreed.
On all points.
Thank you.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-22-2015
Aloha kakahiaka, Mr. Tom. Point taken; was not ignoring those millions, merely setting it straight that throwing around $1.4 billion dollars does not mean it is coming here, as some people actually believe.
One of the reasons I support TMT (besides the scientific opportunities) is because of the millions that will be spent in litigation if it is not built. Additionally, "millions" are indeed good for our economy, however, at what cost?
Let's hope ALL the developers follow the guidelines set forth for Conservation land, and maintain their promise to "protect" Mauna Kea. This has not happened to date, evidenced by the State Auditor reports.
Promises made, must be promises kept. (Not going to hold my breath)
Still holding hope for "common ground" to be reached, as all parties attempt to move forward.
JMO.
ETA: typo; last thought.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - kalakoa - 05-22-2015
$1.4 billion dollars does not mean it is coming here
It is, however, pointed at us.
the millions that will be spent in litigation if it is not built
Wouldn't some of that be from local attorneys, where it might "trickle down"?
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - leilanidude - 05-22-2015
quote:
Originally posted by gypsy69
This TMT project planned atop maunakea is not uniting our diversafied community, or really going to enrich our quality of life. It is our American governments part of the continued space race that had America walk on the moon (first?). Sure hope the TMT project does not include the same amount of TNT dynamite blasting that the Chilean site needed for the worlds 1st or 2nd largest telescope to perch?
The tons of rock blown up or clouds of dust caused from the TNT blasts were made for live t.v. around the world. The mountaintop in Chile has now been reshaped 30 feet lower in elevation to fit one of mans made future wonders of the world. In my opinion, Maunakea and its important history is worth protection from this type of manmade destruction. If they use hundreds of pounds of tnt dynamite to blow up some of Maunakea's history or light blocking cinder cones for the site of the Tmt, will we be able to watch the clouds of red dust on oceanic t.v or would it even be mentioned?.
1. You apparently have no idea where the TMT is actually being placed.
2. You have no idea what the site prep actually is going to be.
3. You have not bothered to read the EIS or you don't understand it.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - opihikao - 05-22-2015
quote:Aloha kakahiaka, kalakoa. Well, TMT has one of the biggest firms in Hawai'i (Watanabe & Ing) representing them, already on retainer. In my mind, the State (et al) would be the "Defendant" (issued permits), so it's our tax dollars that would pay for any litigation. Again. (sigh)
Originally posted by kalakoa
$1.4 billion dollars does not mean it is coming here
It is, however, pointed at us.
the millions that will be spent in litigation if it is not built
Wouldn't some of that be from local attorneys, where it might "trickle down"?
FYI: Here is a good explanation of astronomy in Hawai'i from the Common Ground meeting the other night:
Gerald DeMello explains the timeline of astonomy in Hawai'i
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2015/05/21/video-gerald-demello-gives-timeline-of-astronomy-on-mauna-kea/sthash.BHSHF3yB.gbpl
JMO.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - kalakoa - 05-22-2015
TMT has one of the biggest firms in Hawai'i (Watanabe & Ing) representing them
That retainer will "trickle down" to Oahu:
999 Bishop St # 23, Honolulu, HI 96813
it's our tax dollars that would pay for any litigation. Again.
Remember: living in Hawaii means you pay twice -- for the privilege of being allowed to pay a third time.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - MattKarma - 05-22-2015
Enough about the telescopes on Everest. Looking at those photos and munchies will cause a bulge... which means that the earth's gravity is actually weakest at Mt Huascaran, in Peru.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huascar%C3%A1n
The illegal space-port there is exceptionally beautiful, and the food is awesome.
Case closed.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - PunaMauka2 - 05-22-2015
"common ground" sure rings a diplomatic and productive tone taken at face value, doesn't it. though sometimes in cases of one party asserting themselves over another, especially in direct disregard for legal process, the usage of the expression may hold closer to "exaction".
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 05-22-2015
Opihikao,
Your link didn't work for me; "page not found".
"Gerald DeMello explains the timeline of astonomy in Hawai'i
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2015/05/21/video-gerald-demello-gives-timeline-of-astronomy-on-mauna-kea/sthash.BHSHF3yB.gbpl"
Hopefully this is the one you are referring to:
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2015/05/21/video-gerald-demello-gives-timeline-of-astronomy-on-mauna-kea/