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+--- Thread: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July (/showthread.php?tid=21045)
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RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - ironyak - 07-24-2019
So about those civil suits...
(Although I think the protectors realized they may have been courting disaster on this one, hence the late night access time, free of bad optics)
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 07-24-2019
Judgment proof?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - ironyak - 07-24-2019
I guess I would compare it to the ambulance that had to go up to VIS(?) last week - the protectors understood they had to let it through immediately as blocking it was both bad optics and a clearly actionable offense (never was explained why it was needed? - could easily have been the state testing the response and/or trying to trigger a reason to step in and protect public safety). Blocking telescope technicians runs a similar risk of consequence so the best bet is to allow them up but only when it's not well publicized so as to not undermine the "unyielding moral resolve against the evils of technological colonization" narrative.
All this is just kibitzing conjecture from the sidelines of course.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - knieft - 07-24-2019
Yes, thanks, Tom. I feel for you guys. I still can barely believe these self-important folks are being allowed to run the show. What a world, what a world. I’m melting, I’m melting.
One thing that gets me is the media. There’s the biased stuff on YouTube and social media (much of which I am thankfully unable to see), but the Hawaii news, the national news (even PBS and NPR) seem to have this equivalency thing. Where each side is due equal consideration, and usually in the most general way.
I think there is some term for the idea, but can’t remember it. Like no matter what the confrontation, each side has equal weight in their concerns.
Nowhere is it said how absolutely idiotic it is to protest a telescope. Nowhere is it said how disingenuous the protestors have been throughout the whole process. Nowhere is it said how misguided the group is to make the TMT the symbol for their “oppression”. Very little about the legal process and Supreme Court go ahead. Seems always, Native Hawaiians object (or feel, or say) that the TMT would desecrate (somehow hurt or be bad) and Never have I seen or read that it is a _minority_ of Native Hawaiians.
Just the sacred BS. And that Mauna Kea is the best place for the telescope according to astronomers.
Like it’s all even handed, 50/50 on the whole idea.
What is there to “negotiate”?
Is someone actually asking the fringe protestors, “What can we do for you so that you don’t block the road?” Really?
I really can’t imagine how it must be for the observatory workers, watching, living inside this completely silly crisis.
Kirt
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 07-24-2019
ironyak - I can assure the ambulance was needed - a law enforcement officer was suffering from the effects of high altitude.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - ironyak - 07-24-2019
Thanks for the extra info - just never saw any details after the initial report.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - glinda - 07-24-2019
Why don't these miserable excuses for politicians negotiate with the 77% of Hawaiians who find this circus ridiculous?
Yeah 007, you fell for that line too, eh? HOTPE tried tossing it around, big percentage of Hawaiians blah blah blah, and still when the number you guys are hanging your hats on is one survey that is bogus for all sorts of reasons already explained, one has to wonder what's your point? Other than lashing out, that is?
I bring this up because there's an interesting line in a Hawaii News Now feature this evening in which a Native Hawaiian Navigator is quoted as saying...
"Master Navigator Kalepa Baybayan says it’s been hard to be one of the few Native Hawaiians vocally advocating for the telescopes over the last decade or so"
Quoted from: https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/07/25/telescope-employees-find-future-uncertain-protest-blocks-access-mauna-kea/
So, I ask, if the guy says that, and he aint talking survey, or votes or some such, he's talking about his life. A Navigator, a revered member of the Hawaiian community is saying you're wrong 007. That he is the minority.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-24-2019
the national news (even PBS and NPR) seem to have this equivalency thing. Where each side is due equal consideration
I think that’s what they consider objective reporting. Unfortunately it’s not just the facts mam, but often just the quotes mam. Leaders are always asked for comments, not always experts. Statements are quoted exactly as spoken. If a person lies, and they’re the leader of a group, the lie is quoted because they represent their community or organization. Those lies seep into coverage of the event.
The listener or reader then must determine the validity of those statements with minimum background info or context within current and historical events. Unfortunately TV stories are a few minutes long, newspaper articles a couple of columns, so there’s rarely time for details or fact checks.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-24-2019
HOTPE tried tossing it around, big percentage of Hawaiians blah blah blah... on... one survey that is bogus for all sorts of reasons
glinda,
You say the protestors represent a majority of Native Hawaiians.
Based on what?
How many Native Hawaiians, %, do they represent?
What methods have they used to determine their majority opinions?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Punaperson - 07-24-2019
Right now on PBS is a program called 'Ancient Skies'. It's detailing how cultures from the beginnings of civilizations all around the world had used the study of the stars to define their sacred places. Astronomy , the study of the stars, seems to be a trait that is basic to humanity. Yet here, the 'protectors' want to stop the the study of the infinite as a means to score political points for their version of a kingdom.