+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Building in Puna (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=12)
+--- Thread: Do it yourselfers are hamstrung? (/showthread.php?tid=12401)
RE: Do it yourselfers are hamstrung? - kalakoa - 08-30-2013
Problem with "inspection" is that the inspectors are human: they could be having a good day, or a bad day, or they could go easier on their buddies, or be pickier with someone they don't like. (All of these have happened, at one time or another, here and everywhere else.)
Inspectors tend to assume that "licensed" contractors have done the work "to code"; this is not necessarily true.
Biggest problem is the finality of a "final" inspection: once the inspector leaves, you can (for example) convert the garage into an apartment, and if you don't make a mess, nobody knows it's happened. (People who do "unpermitted" bathroom remodels have been "caught" when they leave the old toilet out in front of the house...)
Our vehicles are inspected annually as a prerequisite for renewal of registration. I may regret this suggestion, but why not have "safety checks" for buildings? Unpermitted gets inspected more often, current safety required for "resident homeowner" tax rate...
RE: Do it yourselfers are hamstrung? - Seeb - 08-30-2013
Buildings with areas of public assembly - restaurants, theaters and such are inspected regularly. But trying to do that with homes would be absurd
RE: Do it yourselfers are hamstrung? - sputnut - 09-02-2013
The last thing any of us need is more govt. intrusion in our lives.
comin' your way soon!
RE: Do it yourselfers are hamstrung? - kalakoa - 09-03-2013
We need a "different level" of government "intrusion".
Consider: wiring by a skilled amateur is simply "illegal" regardless of "quality" ... while a "licensed" tradesperson (with government-granted monopoly status) can legally do shoddy work.
Everyone pays: insurance companies pick up the tab on "permitted" homes while the "unlicensed" collect public benefits because they can't work.
Seems fair.
RE: Do it yourselfers are hamstrung? - Kapohocat - 09-03-2013
I know of two different families - one home in Honomu and one in Hawaiian Shores - that contractors with all the inspections built their homes.
One is sinking into the green waste and the licensed general contractor says it isn't his fault.
One is having too many issues to even enumerate so they sold it with full disclosures.
So much for licenses and inspectors. One will lie and the other swear to it.
RE: Do it yourselfers are hamstrung? - peteadams - 09-03-2013
"So much for licenses and inspectors. One will lie and the other swear to it."
Once read somewhere that if there are lies, incompetence and corruption in government, the problem resides in the lies, incompetence and corruption, not government. You could say exactly the same thing about private businesses. You say "so much for...", but you suggest no alternative, except perhaps implying doing away entirely with licensed professionals and government inspectors? Is that a libertarian goal? Or perhaps the OP's suggestion of payoffs to professionals should be preferred?
One wish at this point would be solid muck-raking journalism to shine some light on the actual state of building inspections and professional tradesman in Hawaii County. Maybe this review could provoke an effort to reform the system to allow amateurs under some sort of regulation to do their own work. Also, the county council recently sent some recommendations to the state legislature for new legislation on topics of interest to them. Perhaps this could be one of them.
RE: Do it yourselfers are hamstrung? - Seeb - 09-03-2013
there is a word used back east " sandbagging "
RE: Do it yourselfers are hamstrung? - Kapohocat - 09-04-2013
quote:
Originally posted by peteadams... You say "so much for...", but you suggest no alternative, except perhaps implying doing away entirely with licensed professionals and government inspectors? Is that a libertarian goal? Or perhaps the OP's suggestion of payoffs to professionals should be preferred?...
One wish at this point would be solid muck-raking journalism to shine some light on the actual state of building inspections and professional tradesman in Hawaii County. Maybe this review could provoke an effort to reform the system to allow amateurs under some sort of regulation to do their own work. Also, the county council recently sent some recommendations to the state legislature for new legislation on topics of interest to them. Perhaps this could be one of them.
I do not know the solution. All I do know is that the current way is not working and is costing owner/builders money with not the security that should come with it.
One option is for our inspectors to have a lot more accreditation so they know what they are looking at. (And not all the inspectors are inexperienced so some of them do know what they are doing).
I also know that when we begin remodeling, my hubby is more meticulous than most of the contractors. His phrase is "good enough is not good enough". But yet he will have to hire a licensed plumber and electrician adding $$$$'s to our project. Thank god he works with Jerry Gardner at MSW electric who does things to my hubby's standards. Now for a decent plumber. And my hubby has done all this stuff for 40 years. But he doesnt know what he is doing according to the state?
No this law is about the contractors lobby plain and simple.
RE: Do it yourselfers are hamstrung? - Carey - 09-04-2013
Pete, Another way to look at your question "... Why should an inspector assume that a non-professional knows anything at all, anything, about installing electrical or plumbing according to code? ..."...
Why should the inspector assume the a licensed contractor will ALWAYS be at the job & ALWAYS inspecting the work they may sub out?
We have a number of "OOPPSIES" done by assistants to the licensed contractor, some found by the inspector, many found AFTER the final...
Licensed contractor was NOT at teh job site most of the time for a total house rewire & when we had questions about the assistants' work, contractor told us he was not too sure about the assistant!....
And after having the required licensed contractors working for us, I gotta add " Why should an inspector assume that a PROFESSIONAL LICENSED CONTRACTOR will DO anything at all, anything, about installing electrical or plumbing according to code?"... sorry, but have heard & seen enough here to cause me to doubt all!
I doubt many areas in the country would you have a building inspectors pass a rough framing & final a structure that had no jack studs or load beams in door & windows on load bearing walls, but have seen it in three different structures, in 2 different districts, here (all had plans that called for them...)
RE: Do it yourselfers are hamstrung? - Rob Tucker - 09-04-2013
I've had this problem too. The licensed subcontractor sent out an unqualified, untrained worker to the site without supervision. You may as well do the work yourself.
I had to fire the plumber on my house.... the unsupervised worker was damaging the structure. On a client's project some know nothing "plumber" ran a waste stack outside the wall through the master bedroom. The kid had no idea what he was doing.
I've had better luck with electricians. But the only time I've had problems with plumbing is when I have had licensed plumbers. Sorry to say.