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+--- Thread: Recycle WHY??. or why not? (/showthread.php?tid=13581)
RE: Recycle WHY??. or why not? - kalakoa - 05-07-2014
"By simply reclassifying an arbitrary amount of general funds to special-fund status, the level of general-fund appropriations drops 'magically', typically to an amount below the constitutionally mandated spending ceiling. ... Another consequence of reclassifying general funds is that only general funds are counted in applying the mandatory rebate provision. By pumping money into special funds, the legislature avoids being forced to rebate taxes to taxpayers."
-- The Price of Paradise, pp 79-80.
RE: Recycle WHY??. or why not? - Super8 - 05-07-2014
Those big facilities, where all trash is sorted and processed, are called material recovery facilities. MRF for short. They can produce soil, too. Someone said easy was the key.
My personal opinion is those 'dumps' are gold mines. Problem is they aren't well managed, because let's face it, people don't generally grow up wishing to be garbagemen. Not a bad job at all, I'd like to do it. Trash needs to be sorted,inspected and stockpiled. Just like ammo. Trash also needs to be planned for 'repurposement' from the get go. A well managed dump could generate quite a bit of money. The problem is really the way the economy is structured and constrained by law. The producer is only concerned with the sale. You might say, well, in a free market economy, the garbage problem leaves opportunity and that void is good because someone else has a chance to make money. But not so fast.
The wide mouth can was genius. It's functional. But does the swirly sprite bottle make the sprite taste better? No. How about that wrapper on the bottle of good old Mt. Dew? Nope. It's waste. All those proprietary trademark-able packagings do is advertise, and you're not being paid. Not to mention the waste of time it would be to sort. It should be an occupation. It should be law, that packagings should have a very clear, well defined lifecycle. It should be law, that on the packaging, the consumer can read what the packaging will be recycled, upcycled, repurposed, etc... into on its next step in its lifecycle, after the consumer discards it. However, Please don't tread on uncle coca cola's first ammendment rights... WTF!?
All kidding aside, garbage should have been high on the list on national security since ancient times. Today more than ever. Dumps are resource heaven. In an age where we are competing for resources, what better way to stockpile? Again, poorly managed and or greedily protected. Maybe a different look towards crap from china?
So mine the dumps and make sure they never become mine able again. Sort, inspect, stockpile- reuse.
Unfortunately, we need power to run facilities like an MRF, better transportation, and labor. Tesla maybe had the answer to the power problem and the public should have demanded that instead of 'free' healthcare, transportation would likely improve with Tesla's 'free' energy, and labor, well there are a lot of incentives to working at the dump.
[8]
RE: Recycle WHY??. or why not? - BI-Curious - 05-07-2014
"I am not trying to start a war, but why exactly don't we burn the trash, put really good filters on the smokestacks and then somehow only have to figure out an ecological way to break down the filters into non-toxic substances? I mean, it should all be chemical reactions, and we should be able to figure this out."
Unknownjulie: I totally agree with you and have been wondering about this for years. If you burn the giant mountain of trash and filter, filter, filter and collect the smoke, you would be left with a minuscule amount of "trash" at the end, plus the burning could generate power. I don't understand why they can't figure out how to make this work.
RE: Recycle WHY??. or why not? - Derrick Barnicoat - 05-07-2014
I don't know if you all have been to places where garbage is burned but it doesn't smell nice and everything gets sooty. Burning plastic is nasty and toxic. I don't know if there are good enough filters for that but there are ways to generate quality electric from a flame. I got one of these awhile ago and the same company makes larger ones for developing countries.
http://shop.biolitestove.com/BioLite-CampStove_p_15.html?utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=csa_default&gclid=CLfE8afdm74CFSJqOgodtAwASA#.U2soIf2pgzk
This is the larger version
http://www.biolitestove.com/homestove/overview/
but I don't think it is for sale yet. It would be cool to have an even larger one to burn trash and generate electricity. Like an enclosed furnace type of thing.
RE: Recycle WHY??. or why not? - Tink - 05-08-2014
Sweden has a garbage fueled cogeneration plant to create electricity and heat. This is why my previous post described such.
Are you a human being, or a human doing?
RE: Recycle WHY??. or why not? - Carey - 05-08-2014
Oahu (HECO) does have the Covanta H-power generator, operating for the last quarter century, so waste-stream generated fuel this is not a new technology for Hawaii state...
Even so, without sorting...well ...the OP question of recycle cans ...H-Power does not run on non-combustable like cans & bottles, without sorting H-Power would not do it...still need to separate & recycle those things...hence my stance that we would need a trained population that buys into, as long as there are people that do not see it in their ability to recycle...either we will need to pay someone else to sort & recycle their waste, or we will need to ship it somewhere else very soon...just hope we do not hear COMPLAINING in the future about the cost of his actions today!
RE: Recycle WHY??. or why not? - Tink - 05-08-2014
Unfortunately, the cogen is black oil fired... At least from what I've heard. Try to stay off of Oahu
Are you a human being, or a human doing?
RE: Recycle WHY??. or why not? - terracore - 05-10-2014
In Alaska trash pickup was about $35/month for three small cans. Taking a pickup load of anything to the dump was $25. An oversized load was charged by the pound (they weighed your vehicle coming in and going out). There was only one place to recycle and it was a long ways away from the population centers and it had inconvenient bankers hours. You also had to sort everything manually, there were no "mixed recyclables" bins like we have here. And the smell was horrendous.
Illegal dumping was everywhere. It was actively enforced (they put hidden cameras at known dumping areas) but that eventually made it worse as people started dumping their crap in more places.
Roadsides were common dumping areas and since that's also where the snow berms wound up, the spring thaw revealed exactly how disgusting humanity was throughout the winter.
The Hawaii system is so much better. Convenient locations and hours, it's clean, everything is easy to sort, it's free, and it reduces illegal dumping.
RE: Recycle WHY??. or why not? - eigoya - 05-10-2014
The Fairbanks (Alaska) transfer station allowed free dumping 24/7 separated by construction , green and regular waste. Furthermore, there was a recycle area which you could leave or collect reusables a. I got a cast iron tub, skis, furniture, school supplies and left countless items for others. Especially when it was time to move. The convenience beats the hell out of the Pahoa dump ( for all it's beauty).....
RE: Recycle WHY??. or why not? - dreamoutloud - 05-11-2014
I personally think that everyone should recycle all that they can. Not just to cut costs and keep our planet cleaner but to provide a nicer place for our kids, grandchildren, etc to live in down the road. Yes, it is a pain sometimes and takes time, but the waste that even one person generates amounts to so much over the course of a lifetime.
I wish I had been taught to recycle as a kid. Would have made so much more of a difference by now
I live in Montana now and even though our huge state only has less than a million people in it and plenty of room for dumps, I still recycle because it helps!
It is not easy here and our town didnt even offer glass recycling until about a year ago.
When we visited HI in January I was so pleased to see recycling bins right at the condo complex. Wow that was convenient! When we move there we will be sure to do our part in keeping the island beautiful.
Thanks Carey for your informative and truthful posts