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+--- Thread: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access (/showthread.php?tid=16163)
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - MarkP - 07-12-2015
Whodathunkit, but knieft lives in the same world that the majority of us do. His contribution is to point out the only course of action available to the protesters that would allow them to save face since they have pretty much painted themselves into a corner.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - TomK - 07-12-2015
Lo-ka-hi,
"According to your assessment then there is no other suitable location for the TMT on the mountain, so either it will either be built at the proposed location or it won't be built at all on Mauna Kea."
Thanks for your reply, and I'm happy to hear I've helped with your understanding of the situation, that means a lot to me.
Putting aside cultural arguments for the moment, I wouldn't say there is no other suitable place on Mauna Kea, but trying to identify another site would involve years of work. Major telescopes go through a process of site testing, as did the TMT, which involves monitoring observing conditions at that site for a long period of time (as well as at other candidate sites). Even atop Mauna Kea, image quality can change quite dramatically even between sites a few hundred yards apart, so if another location were needed my guess would be it would take another two or three years to go through that scientific process. So, if for some reason the TMT had to change location, then it would not be built in my opinion, as it would also have to go through all the other legal processes it's been through in the last seven years. So yes, I suspect you're correct.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - kimo wires - 07-12-2015
This looks like it's about to get Ugly..
Starting with the Lolo this morning.
Hope I'm wrong.
It's like bad parents dealing with an unruly child.
O.K. Since you won't obey the rules we're going to make up some new rules that are more harsh. And if you break the new rules you're going to get a spanking.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - ericlp - 07-12-2015
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2015/07/12/ag-woman-crashes-car-into-omkm-vehicle-on-mauna-kea/
I'm so happy that they are enforcing these new rules. Now they will have to get more enforcement to deal with these "protectors" ... I wonder what's next?
Keep it up and we will extend the restrictions. These people need to go home and take a vacation from the mountain for a few months before they hurt someone.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-12-2015
I mean gee, you should just be grateful nobody is asking for your land back.
They can ask, but I'd say no thanks.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-12-2015
The individual allegedly drove up to a ranger and two sheriffs and argued with them for not allowing her to ascend the mountain. She then advanced her car into the OMKM ranger’s vehicle,
Get the hell out of my way. I'm trying to worship, dammit.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - beepbeep - 07-12-2015
I have wondered for some time now what the issue of the TMT is really about...more than the TMT itself, I think. Simmering anger about Hawaiian issues. Money, reparations. Economic distress. Sovereignty. Questions of title, land ownership, what is allowed on land and who it really belongs to. It seems to be very complicated and there is nothing like an agreed-upon petition for what changes are really wanted. TMT negotiated for years in good faith and now what has been agreed upon is not enough because there is so much more that protesters want; it is just not clear what those things are because they do not, at least not yet, agree with each other on what is wanted. The telescopes have been a rallying point but what is below the surface is murky but passionate...
If I were a journalist, I would start asking protestors individually: putting aside for the moment anything at all to do with telescopes...what do you want to see happen in or for Hawai'i?
Pam in CA
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - TomK - 07-12-2015
"I mean gee, you should just be grateful nobody is asking for your land back.
"They can ask, but I'd say no thanks."
I look forward to what might be the most polite revolution in history.
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - beepbeep - 07-12-2015
So polite that the British must somehow be involved
Pam in CA
RE: Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access - dmbwest - 07-12-2015
Tom,
"Even atop Mauna Kea, image quality can change quite dramatically even between sites a few hundred yards apart"
Please explain this to me and all us pleebs.
The way I am thinking ... Same equipment, just moved a "few hundred yards apart" from its position now. Given observed object's distance away, how would one ever know ? Does this mean the observatories should be moveable ?
This is a real question.
aloha,
pog