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+--- Thread: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga (/showthread.php?tid=16504)
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - terracore - 10-20-2015
In all these arguments nobody is addressing the real question: What's best for these two individual tigers?
That question goes beyond any argument about animal exploitation, the ethics of zoos, or why humans have destroyed most of the world's natural habitats. Put all of that aside. WHAT'S BEST FOR THESE TWO TIGERS?. Please, no fanciful pie-in-the-sky answers about putting them into the wild (notice I did not say "returning" them to the wild, since they have never, and will never, experience "the wild").
If there is some place (a real place, not a hypothetical solution) better than our "zoo" to place them, then by all means, that is where they should go. If our zoo is better than these poor animals being placed into a casino, circus, roadside attraction, pets for a hillbilly, or any of the other infinite number of options, then why are people judging a hundred years of habitat loss and the institutions that caused these tigers to exist in the first place, rather than focusing on what is best for them?
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - dmbwest - 10-20-2015
+1 Terracore,
Not like these cats are going to Priceline looking for the best place to stay ...
Thinking out loud:
Maybe the powers that be should dig up more on this whiner Gibson. Or ask her what SHE would do ?
aloha,
pog
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - MarkP - 10-20-2015
Excellent question Terracore. I strongly suspect that these cubs were bred for some reason, almost certainly for sale. That affects my point of view. If they recently ran out of a rainforest that was being illegally logged then a place should be found for them. If somebody bred them for profit then we should take a hard look at whether this sort of thing should be enabled. If zoos are truly the repositories of earth's genetic riches we should be sure that the portfolio is diverse and of high quality, not the product of binge buying from late night infomercials. Who is this breeder?
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - Kapoho Joe - 10-21-2015
@shockwave - Please won't someone think of the children? Considering the graduation rates around here, it seems we could do with less field trips and more classwork.
@terracore - The outfit in Oregon is just a glorified puppy mill. He has been cited, fined and faced multiple criminal complaints that forced him to move to different states. Craig Wagner was cited as far back as 1990 for a Leopard and Tiger being chained outside in the open yard once again with no food or water. This was Wagner’s fifth citation from WI DNR. Nothing changed and the starving tiger killed a black leopard and ate it. In return, Wagner allegedly beat the cat with a two-by-four. Wagner was found guilty in March 1993 and received a nine month jail sentence, which was stayed by the judge. He was placed on probation for 2 years and ordered to pay more than $45,000 in restitution. Because Wagner failed to comply with the restitution order, a warrant for his arrest was issued in 1997.
Wagner then moved part of his organization to MN where he traveled and did cat shows for Renaissance Festivals until PETA protested that he housed cats inhumanely and he lost most of that work. There have been several incidences in MN that forced Wagner to move around the state three times. (check Hugo and Forest Lake, MN. records)
Then, he moved to OR and bought 10 acres to do his “Wildlife Safari”. This is just a small snapshot of this man’s lifelong abuse of big cats for profit.
Sound pono to you?
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - terracore - 10-21-2015
"@terracore - The outfit in Oregon is just a glorified puppy mill. He has been cited, fined and faced multiple criminal complaints that forced him to move to different states. Craig Wagner was cited as far back as 1990 for a Leopard and Tiger being chained outside in the open yard once again with no food or water. This was Wagner’s fifth citation from WI DNR. Nothing changed and the starving tiger killed a black leopard and ate it. In return, Wagner allegedly beat the cat with a two-by-four. Wagner was found guilty in March 1993 and received a nine month jail sentence, which was stayed by the judge. He was placed on probation for 2 years and ordered to pay more than $45,000 in restitution. Because Wagner failed to comply with the restitution order, a warrant for his arrest was issued in 1997.
Wagner then moved part of his organization to MN where he traveled and did cat shows for Renaissance Festivals until PETA protested that he housed cats inhumanely and he lost most of that work. There have been several incidences in MN that forced Wagner to move around the state three times. (check Hugo and Forest Lake, MN. records)
Then, he moved to OR and bought 10 acres to do his “Wildlife Safari”. This is just a small snapshot of this man’s lifelong abuse of big cats for profit.
Sound pono to you?"
So you are saying the tigers would be better off here.
Okay, next topic please.
ETA: less is more.
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - shockwave rider - 10-21-2015
quote:
Originally posted by Kapoho Joe
@shockwave - Please won't someone think of the children? Considering the graduation rates around here, it seems we could do with less field trips and more classwork.
@terracore - The outfit in Oregon is just a glorified puppy mill. He has been cited, fined and faced multiple criminal complaints that forced him to move to different states. Craig Wagner was cited as far back as 1990 for a Leopard and Tiger being chained outside in the open yard once again with no food or water. This was Wagner’s fifth citation from WI DNR. Nothing changed and the starving tiger killed a black leopard and ate it. In return, Wagner allegedly beat the cat with a two-by-four. Wagner was found guilty in March 1993 and received a nine month jail sentence, which was stayed by the judge. He was placed on probation for 2 years and ordered to pay more than $45,000 in restitution. Because Wagner failed to comply with the restitution order, a warrant for his arrest was issued in 1997.
Wagner then moved part of his organization to MN where he traveled and did cat shows for Renaissance Festivals until PETA protested that he housed cats inhumanely and he lost most of that work. There have been several incidences in MN that forced Wagner to move around the state three times. (check Hugo and Forest Lake, MN. records)
Then, he moved to OR and bought 10 acres to do his “Wildlife Safari”. This is just a small snapshot of this man’s lifelong abuse of big cats for profit.
Sound pono to you?
Don't think I said a word about field trips, so get down off your high horse there cowboy. Families do take their kids to the zoo you know, especially a free zoo.
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - kalakoa - 10-21-2015
especially a free zoo.
It's probably a pretty expensive "free" zoo -- but then again, we're also investing in libraries.
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - viviansuet - 12-08-2015
email your concerns today to: Jonathan.K.Ho@hawaii.gov
Testify Again by Wednesday 11.9.15 1:30 pm
Despite earlier overwhelming testimony in opposition to the issuance of a permit for the Panaewa Zoo to acquire 2 Bengal tiger cubs, the Plant and Animal Advisory Committee will be reconsidering approval of this request this Wednesday, December 9 at 130pm. Both the Panaewa Zoo and the tiger breeder-dealer, CJ’s Big Cats, have been cited for numerous violations of the USDA Animal Welfare Act. Further, Bengal tigers are an endangered species, require specialized care and the Panaewa Zoo is not an accredited facility.
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - Guest - 12-08-2015
Oh how we miss namaste when we visit the zoo, although the kids find the playground and very large snake at the zoo pretty cool to visit now too.
RE: Battle over Bengals at Panaewa Rainforest Zoo & Ga - terracore - 12-08-2015
Bengal tigers are not endangered in captivity. In fact, there are nearly twice as many captive tigers In the United States than there are wild tigers on the entire planet. I agree, that is some messed up stuff.
These bengal tiger cubs will never see the wild, and they would be a lot better off at our "unaccredited" facility than they would be at some casino, circus, roadside attraction, or trailer park, places they very well could wind up if we don't take them.
Hawaii did nothing to take wild tigers to the brink of extinction, we did not bring these cubs into this world, but our huge enclosure could make their lives a whole lot better. What else do you propose? Casinos? Euthanasia?
ETA: I emailed Jonathan.K.Ho@hawaii.gov and expressed my concern for these tiger cubs and how they probably could never do better than coming here. If you feel the same, you can email him too.