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+--- Thread: HPP road maintainence (/showthread.php?tid=17721)
RE: HPP road maintainence - caveat emptor - 03-12-2017
Last week I received copies of the first 2 contracts w/ Triple K Trucking (the co. doing the chip seal). They were from May 2015 and July 2015. The 1st contract states, among other requirements, that Triple K will handle trucking all of the 3/4” base course and 3/8” chips but will bill HPP separately from the actual chip sealing process. HPP was required to “purchase the 3/4” base course and 3/8” chipping materials based on the best materials to get the job done correctly, verified and approved by TKT.”
What this part of the contract means is that no one, that is, the Association does not know, what the actual chipping material purchases have cost HPP... except a few. Because the line items for “chips” and “rock” that are in the financial reports, the ones that the Finance Committee are required to be receiving and as previously reported on PT, are blank!
Further into the 2 page contract it says that “7 miles of roadway to be chip sealed and fog sealed for: $50,000 per mile.” I don’t know what “fog sealed” means, maybe they meant “vog sealed”.
The 2nd contract in July 23, 2015 is similar to the 1st except that it now says that they will do “a one mile test road 20 feet wide by 5280 feet long. Cost for 1 mile is $50,000” and “If the project is satisfactory with HPPOA Board of Directors, (upon completion of the 1 – mile test) there will be an additional 6 miles added to the project. The coast per mile of 20 feet wide X 5280 feet long is $50,000. The total cost for the additional 6 miles will be $300,000.”
The last page of the contract is dated July 7, 2015 and appears to be a worksheet of total costs that maybe the GM made.
It lays out all of the costs:
1 mile compact and prepare by road crew $10,000.
¾ inch base coarse $13.50/ton X 900 X 500 tons = $12,150 per mile
¾ inch base course delivery $4.5/ ton X 900 tons = $4050
3/8 inch chips 25lbs / sq yd / mile
11,733 sq yd X 25 = 293,333 lbs = 146.7 tons X $23.50 /ton for chips = $3,448/mile
3/8 inch chips delivery $4.50 /ton X 146.7 = $660
.50 gal /sq rd of asphalt emulsion sprayed chips spread, rolled .30 / sq rd of slow set asphalt emulsion sprayed. $50,000/mile
Total /mile chip seal $10,000
$12,150
$4,050
$3,448
$ 660
$50,000
----------
$80,308
Unfortunately, no one except “the few” actually knows what the final signed contract says, because as far as I am aware, nobody except “the few” has seen it, certainly not the Association. What is troubling is that, and as anyone can see for themselves, there is not the required base course laid on the roads that have been chip sealed to date. It is very obvious even to a casual observer, that the chip seal just laid on 26th between Makuu & Paradise is paper thin. Does not that raise a reasonable question as to where all the money is going? Does it not seem reasonable to ask “the few” why you are not abiding with what TKT required in the contract? Did the signed contract get changed and TKT is okay with a substandard job that is contrary to his standard contract?
I know that the owner of TKT in a deposition last Nov. (maybe for the OL lawsuit), stated that he tells his clients that 3 layers of chip seal is what is needed to do a good chip seal job. I wonder what changed.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Hmmm - 03-12-2017
I would really like to get a copy of those contracts from You as I realllly dont think the office will love to give me one also can you get most recent ones for 26th and i believe 23rd?
RE: HPP road maintainence - leo - 03-12-2017
Looks like the contract is for 7 miles of chip seal roadway so I believe that means 23rd and 26th are inclusive in the contract?
RE: HPP road maintainence - Hmmm - 03-12-2017
As I looked through the thread I think you are correct I really need a copy of this contract !!!!!!
RE: HPP road maintainence - My 2 cents - 03-12-2017
quote:
Originally posted by Hmmm
A license has all the benefits of any repercussions to fix any incomplete or incompetence in work it has all insurances etc without that you get what you get good bad or the ugly also to get a general license in the state of hawaii is not so easy as you may think it is..
Right, because insurance companies always pay up, in full, with no hesitation.
RE: HPP road maintainence - caveat emptor - 03-13-2017
Hmmmm, the copies of the contracts that I now have are unsigned and as I said in my last post, the Association has no idea what is in the signed contract. But, every member has the right by state law (found in HRS 414 D) and in HPPOA bylaws to get a copy of anything related to the Association not involving client/attorney privilege, certain employee confidentiality matters and private info on your neighbors.Other than that, any member can waltz into the office and ask for them.
The way it is supposed to work at the HPP office is, if you want printed copies they will ask you to fill out a 1 page request form and then expect to be charged $2/page. Before mid-July 2014 when the office was run by impartial (impartial in that the employees did not regularly attack Association members), professional non-HPP residence employees, they would let you read the report or other document that you were interested in seeing if you did not want a copy.
You have a lawful right to not only see the chip seal contract, you have the right as an Association member to get a copy.
How ever the signed contract reads, I'm sure it does not include any mention of which streets will be chip sealed. Triple K Trucking doesn't care about that, they'll work on whatever street the GM tells them. I believe it has been mentioned before on PT that the GM/Jo Maynard plan was to start the chip seal at the top of HPP and work down.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Hmmm - 03-13-2017
Thank you caveat entor your wisdom on the matter is greatly appreciated #128521; do you know if they finished chip sealing 26th ?
RE: HPP road maintainence - caveat emptor - 03-13-2017
Hmmmm, I have only heard that they started today to finish the 2nd half from Makuu to Paradise but the equipment may have broken down. Not sure though.
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 03-14-2017
quote:Craig Crelly previous board pres sd they were going to lower the charge per page. Hasn't happened yet but the membership can change that w/a vote at a membership mtg.
Originally posted by caveat emptor
The way it is supposed to work at the HPP office is, if you want printed copies they will ask you to fill out a 1 page request form and then expect to be charged $2/page.
Before mid-July 2014 when the office was run by impartial (impartial in that the employees did not regularly attack Association members), professional non-HPP residence employees, they would let you read the report or other document that you were interested in seeing if you did not want a copy.
You have a lawful right to not only see the chip seal contract, you have the right as an Association member to get a copy.
How ever the signed contract reads, I'm sure it does not include any mention of which streets will be chip sealed. Triple K Trucking doesn't care about that, they'll work on whatever street the GM tells them. I believe it has been mentioned before on PT that the GM/Jo Maynard plan was to start the chip seal at the top of HPP and work down.
Bc the membership had no vote on CS, they also had no say in what order the roads were CS'd. When roads were getting paved w/asphalt, which roads got paved depended on population and frequency of maintenance work.
There's an inequity in "starting from the top and working their way down". Again, decisions made w/out equity in mind. Most of the asphalted roads are in the upper part of the park. All those in the mid area down to Kaloli Pt are left out of the equation for years even though those roads are heavily populated. My hopes are that CS will stop soon so I won't have to be concerned about an ugly failing cheap alternative to asphalt on my road. Equity is to get asphalt like the other roads for better value. While we wait, I want the GM and board to give me a quality dirt road.
RE: HPP road maintainence - EightFingers - 03-14-2017
"...They also had no say in what order the roads were CS'd. ..."
Membership can't even agree a meeting is legit, can you imagine how hard it would be to come up with a paving schedule?