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+--- Thread: HPP road maintainence (/showthread.php?tid=17721)
RE: HPP road maintainence - Eric1600 - 05-15-2017
Historically, BSTs have been in use since the 1920s, primarily on low volume gravel roads. BSTs are increasingly in use as a preventative maintenance procedure on flexible pavements of good structure.
http://www.pavementinteractive.org/bituminous-surface-treatments/
Through that webpage I found a detailed manual about chip sealing from Minnesota DOT https://www.lrrb.org/pdf/200634.pdf where you can learn more than you ever wanted to know about the process and problems.
It's recommended that a double BST treatment is used for rural roads https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_t9xVEeTf0
And I also stumbled upon the EPA's 10 points to consider whether to pave a gravel road, seal it, etc. According to this pdf about paving, "The ten answers taken together provide a framework for careful decision making."
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-10/documents/2003_07_24_nps_gravelroads_appd_0.pdf
It was interesting to see that double chip seal is estimated to have a 6 year life as one of the cost considerations.
RE: HPP road maintainence - leo - 05-15-2017
How many times do I have to point this out: it's not a "road paving" project, it's a "redistribution of wealth".
Are you suggesting all the boards responsible for the chip seal are corrupt? No one wants to believe that's possible but after the mismanagement and non transparency going on, it's hard not to come to any other conclusion.
I used to get yearly finance reports in the mail and handed out at meetings, but nothing all last year or this year. Now we find out they're storing heavy chip seal equipment, aggregate and emulsion on leased AG land. That's more money, while they neglect maintaining the park roads.
They're hiding important information from us. Maybe it's time for a forensic audit.
RE: HPP road maintainence - leo - 05-15-2017
The road neglect is finally catching up to them and IMO, it's indefensible. Unfortunately it's OUR $$$$$$ they're wasting again if they decide to legally challenge the DOH = more $$$$ going into atty fees, not road maint material. What a vicious cycle they've woven.
Mermaid, it IS indefensible how they frivolously spend association money. It pisses me off when I see the park roads falling apart. These people obviously don't know what the hell they're doing. They can't even conduct a decent meeting to further prove my point.
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 05-16-2017
Eric1600, thanks for sharing those links...very educational and brings up a lot of other things to consider for specific needs.
One item is that once a road is paved, traffic moves at a higher speed. This is why back in the day, the Road Traffic Safety Committee was trying to get the board and GM to clear the easements of encroachments and obstructions, fill ditches, remove rock outcropping that was inches from the road's edge, before paving w/asphalt.
The topography of every road is different and IMO requires engineer involvement if you want a successful result of whatever product is put down on the road.
The one link stated at least 4" thick of CS....we have what appears to be 1/2". That's why we have problems already on 26th, not even a year old, and between Paradise and Makuu, not even 2 mos old and already required maint. I think we should consider 26th a "test road" since we never got one as promised by the board, log the maintenance of it...meanwhile stop chip sealing and get back to maintaining our dirt and asphalt roads. Other work that should be done is working on the easements of the main drags. Remove the large rocks and fill in the holes, make them load baring and grade and level. There are sections that drop off and could cause roll overs.
I had to get off Makuu real quick when I saw a D9 on a tractor, no police escort, emerge out of the shade of the tall albizias, taking up more than 1/2 the road. I prayed the easement that I was going to pull onto was safe.
That was a concern for the County on Makuu when they were working on that emergency access during the lava scare. I don't know if they worked on the shoulders off Makuu or not but they were aware of the problems. They restriped and put reflectors from 16th or so to the top of Makuu because our conditions were unsafe.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Hmmm - 05-17-2017
Hey Mermaid Lignen is not a form of paving it is a dust control product that would work out a he'll of a lot cheaper than chip seal that seems to be the point the board is taking saying that chip seal is for dust abatement (Yea right) my point is that Lignen could be used on the non paved roads for dust control for 1/20th the price of Chip sealing and would last as long if not longer seeing the poor job that is being called chip seal.
Reality is we would be better off putting down 1 inch of asphalt for the same price of what they are doing the chip seal for .. however even though hpp is "private roads" the board should be addressing the county on kicking in towards the paving as our roads are being used by others trying to beat the traffic and coming through hpp to do so.
There's a concept! I'm sure there are board members that are reading this so how about having a sit down with Harry Kim!!!
RE: HPP road maintainence - Tink - 05-17-2017
Maybe work out a deal with the County that the main roads(Kaloli, Paradise, Makuu) are maintained by County, and the side roads by maintenence?
Community begins with Aloha
RE: HPP road maintainence - Kenney - 05-18-2017
I sure wish somebody ( those who take our $ for Road Maintainance) would stripe the main drags and install reflectors. Had to go to Hospice the other night to say good bye to a friend and the drive up Maku'u was harrowing, definitely the darkest, most dangerous part of the drive.
Safety on our roads should be priority, not mailboxes.
RE: HPP road maintainence - kalakoa - 05-18-2017
our roads are being used by others trying to beat the traffic
Exactly. Why should County or State bother with new highway capacity when HPP will provide it for free?
As an extra added bonus, the detour burns more gas, so those drivers pay extra gas tax at the pump!
RE: HPP road maintainence - Hmmm - 05-18-2017
Are they chip sealing roads haven't seen any new ones going maybe they are done ? Rethinking paving instead? Wishful thinking#128522;
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 05-18-2017
According to the GM at last night's board mtg, the CS will be continuing. I couldn't hear what roads bc he speaks so softly.
He also said a lot of people are asking for "base coarse" on their roads bc they have none. I don't know if that's his term, or if people are actually asking for base coarse. I'm stunned the GM would even consider putting base coarse down as road material.
Used to be people were asking for pothole repair...now they're asking for "base coarse". Could be the dots are starting to connect finally w/people out there that lack of road material is the reason we have so many potholes and lots of fugitive dust ...hence the DOH fines. As said before, the road neglect is finally catching up to them and IMO, it's indefensible. I don't know how the board could entertain the idea of going to court to challenge the DOH = more atty fees...and they have more $$$ than HPP. We will be the ones that lose if our $$$ is spent on legal expenditures = less $$$ for road maint.
Base coarse is good under asphalt, for your gardens and is not user friendly for vehicles, bike riding and pedestrians. Road material is not all created equal. I've often heard 3/4" minus is a better grade road material. Maybe someone out there who knows about road material can comment further on this. But please don't ask for base coarse :/
The GM said people will have to be patient in getting material on their road bc they're over budget already...??? How can they be over budget already? CS???
Dist 2 asked the GM when he will get CS on 15th bc of the mailbox location. He sd it could be w/in the yr and she urged him to get it done sooner than that.
Mailbox location?!! The membership voted the mailbox project down...she's persistent and is still working on getting the project going. Despite that there's no provisions in our bylaws for the board to pursue this. There shouldn't even be a board mailbox committee, they are to be focused on roads. Mailboxes should be a membership committee w/members raising money through fundraising etc. Did anyone who mailed in mailbox $$$ get it returned to them?
Dist 2 rep complained last night that the board decided to use Nanawale to receive our election ballots bc "of last yr's complaints" and they decided to mail out postcard ballots for the same reason....NOT that it's against the bylaws to do it any other way! She's been on the board since 2014...incredible! She complained that people were dropping off ballots at the ofc instead of mailing them to Nanawale. She was clueless that some people didn't like the postcard put your own stamp method. Some people thought it was junk mail and threw them away bc they'd never seen a ballot come this way in all the yrs of living in HPP.
State law 414D requires ballots be mailed to us in envelopes...so they broke state law..but not our bylaws this time.
Kenney, stripes and reflectors are the last priority on this board's agenda, which actually goes back to all the boards since 2015. The newbie reps didn't even discuss it bc it's already been decided to put it on the back burner for when they've accumulated enough $$$ to do it. They're treating it like it's a capital expenditure project when it's actually road maint and the $$$ should come from road maint. CS should be the capital expenditure project and the funding should be doled out as accumulated. They've got it backwards and upside down and that's very unfortunate and unsafe.
Tink, discussion to dedicate our main drags to the County has already come and gone at least twice now. The last time, Greggor Ilagan asked HPP for a 3 item wish list to the county listed in order of priority. #1 was dedicate our main roads. The following month he came back talking about a park. I have a feeling board reps called him after the meeting and reshuffled the wish list. A survey had been done a few yrs prior and the membership said overwhelmingly they wanted to dedicate the main drags to the county. Total board disregard of membership's wishes, same reps involved.
The 1st time there was dialog w/the county about main road dedication, the county didn't like the driveways on the main drags bc of the potential liability, the encroachments on the easements where road shoulders have to be, and said our signage had to get up to par w/county standards. The boards have not made any attempt towards reaching this goal. It would entail enforcing our bylaws and $$$ they need for CS.