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+--- Thread: Cultural Rifts? (/showthread.php?tid=15291)
RE: Cultural Rifts? - Johnd - 12-29-2014
quote:no kidding?
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
The county needs to be taken on in Federal court. The CoH's liabilities are huge.
jdo
RE: Cultural Rifts? - Johnd - 12-29-2014
quote:she ain't a saint, that is for sure. Rob just verified that she knew what was going on. How do you justify a "tax mine" my dear? is nothing but institutionalized theft, to those who bought then, and those who own now. It ain't no mystery either that we get nada in HPP for the taxes paid to Kenoi's corrupt court.
Originally posted by geochem
little racist there jdo - care to make the same statement about Detroit, New York, or our nation's capitol? and somehow, I don't think Helene Hale would qualify for any yakuza gang I am familiar with.
jdo
RE: Cultural Rifts? - kalakoa - 12-30-2014
we get nada in HPP for the taxes paid to Kenoi's corrupt court
HPP gets the honor and privilege of becoming the latest Emergency Access Route.
Hawaiian Acres did get $2.1M worth of "flood mitigation" improvements (which it needed) -- and HPP just got something like $1.7M worth of "Railroad Bypass" (which it didn't want).
In both cases, "nothing" would probably have been a better deal.
RE: Cultural Rifts? - PunaMauka2 - 12-30-2014
quote:
Originally posted by Johnd
quote:nope, I used the term quite literately actually. that is what they have been and that is what they are. Careful when pulling the racist card boys; don't be so fast with that one, there is more than meets the eye...in any culture.
Originally posted by PunaMauka2
i'm guessing there wasn't much real, if any, racist intent in Johnd's statement. maybe he just enjoys watching old yakuza themed movies (samurai too) like i do. but then i am assuming the best here.
by the way, Helen Hale have all her digits intact?
jdo
oh wow, i overlooked this one. so are you seriously saying that the County government is actively infiltrated by Yakuza influence or control? haha too much.
RE: Cultural Rifts? - geochem - 12-30-2014
Let me try to explain... The property values in Puna are high because the valuations were set during the boom when many properties changed hands. There were far fewer sales in the established neighborhoods in Hilo - few sales during the boom, no reset of property values. Those who had the misfortune/poor judgement of buying during the boom, get stuck paying higher property taxes than long-time owners in Hilo.
Is it a conspiracy by the evil power-brokers in Hilo - hardly. It's useful to remember the adage: "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity (or incompetence, indifference, etc. as the case may be...)". Is the county tax office going to annually reset the property valuations on their own? No, they don't have the resources to do that - and for my money, I'm hoping that they never do have those resources...
If your valuations are higher than can be supported by sales data, then, rather than spending your time moaning about it on this forum, it's incumbent on you to provide documentation to the county that can justify a lower valuation. I encountered this situation during an earlier cycle - my neighborhood was valued during the peak of the cycle and the county maintained that valuation well after the peak had passed. I gathered comparable sales data and appealed the valuation - and they reduced my property to an appropriate value. No conspiracy, no muss, no fuss - do the work, and get it fixed.
And as for Kalakoa's one track attitude: yes, Virginia, the world is unfair - and the county and the state don't enforce all the laws on the books (and never have). Those of us who are paying attention are - or should be - very thankful for both those realities.
RE: Cultural Rifts? - kalakoa - 12-30-2014
the county and the state don't enforce all the laws on the books
Opinion: "spot enforcement" hinders economic growth by maintaining the status quo.
Other than that, I'm thankful that we're not getting the government we're paying for, but I do think we could probably get what we have for cheaper than we're paying now.
I just wish "they" would stop pretending.
RE: Cultural Rifts? - shockwave rider - 12-30-2014
quote:
Originally posted by geochem
Let me try to explain... The property values in Puna are high because the valuations were set during the boom when many properties changed hands. There were far fewer sales in the established neighborhoods in Hilo - few sales during the boom, no reset of property values. Those who had the misfortune/poor judgement of buying during the boom, get stuck paying higher property taxes than long-time owners in Hilo.
Is it a conspiracy by the evil power-brokers in Hilo - hardly. It's useful to remember the adage: "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity (or incompetence, indifference, etc. as the case may be...)". Is the county tax office going to annually reset the property valuations on their own? No, they don't have the resources to do that - and for my money, I'm hoping that they never do have those resources...
If your valuations are higher than can be supported by sales data, then, rather than spending your time moaning about it on this forum, it's incumbent on you to provide documentation to the county that can justify a lower valuation. I encountered this situation during an earlier cycle - my neighborhood was valued during the peak of the cycle and the county maintained that valuation well after the peak had passed. I gathered comparable sales data and appealed the valuation - and they reduced my property to an appropriate value. No conspiracy, no muss, no fuss - do the work, and get it fixed.
And as for Kalakoa's one track attitude: yes, Virginia, the world is unfair - and the county and the state don't enforce all the laws on the books (and never have). Those of us who are paying attention are - or should be - very thankful for both those realities.
Actually even after sales at very high prices many Hilo properties do not have their values reset. Just spend a little time looking at values on the county tax assessment website and you see a clear pattern of undervaluing Hilo homes (including the homes of the assessors.)
I have seen homes that had been recorded to have sold for well over $350,000 that were still valued at below $100,000, before exemptions. You can only get a tear down for under $250,000 in Hilo and there have been enough sales for the county to have a good idea of the value of Hilo properties. I know they have been very aggressive about raising values in HPP and Leilani, but very slow to raise values in North and South Hilo and Hamakua. My guess is they don't want to deal with the backlash for raising values on long term residents homes in Hilo, but view HPP and Leilani as easy pickings.
RE: Cultural Rifts? - Rob Tucker - 12-30-2014
shockwave rider raises an interesting point. Dominic Yagong, former council chairman who ran for mayor against Kenoi, had expressed a desire to audit the property tax rolls among other things.
What followed was an organized attack, in my humble opinion, on Yagong by the civil employees union and others to discredit and embarrass Yagong and his council clerk. It was successful.
RE: Cultural Rifts? - Johnd - 12-31-2014
quote:I did not say they were infiltrated by Japan Inc. But it is the same culture, a la Havaii
Originally posted by PunaMauka2
quote:
Originally posted by Johnd
quote:nope, I used the term quite literately actually. that is what they have been and that is what they are. Careful when pulling the racist card boys; don't be so fast with that one, there is more than meets the eye...in any culture.
Originally posted by PunaMauka2
i'm guessing there wasn't much real, if any, racist intent in Johnd's statement. maybe he just enjoys watching old yakuza themed movies (samurai too) like i do. but then i am assuming the best here.
by the way, Helen Hale have all her digits intact?
jdo
oh wow, i overlooked this one. so are you seriously saying that the County government is actively infiltrated by Yakuza influence or control? haha too much.
jdo
RE: Cultural Rifts? - PunaMauka2 - 12-31-2014
you said "literally", so at that point i took it more at face value.
then i would recommend you more thoroughly educate yourself on Japanese culture vs. local Japanese-descent culture before making such sweeping comparisons of them being "the same". surely there are very abundant similarities carried over, but i assure you there are also more than enough changes which have occurred over time. ...not to mention all the mixing and blending of influences back and forth with our collective culture here.