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+--- Thread: HPP road maintainence (/showthread.php?tid=17721)
RE: HPP road maintainence - Slow Walker - 11-23-2016
quote:
Originally posted by shockwave rider
quote:
Originally posted by Slow Walker
[quote]Originally posted by Johnd
"Anyway, I'm not happy with the road situation. My neighbors aren't happy with it. My car's not happy with it. Is anyone happy with it?
I suggest everyone within HPP whose road looks like a roller coaster call HPPOA and make that list very very long. We shouldn't have to go to meetings"
They were talking about the grader 4 years ago like the main cause for inaction, but no talk about the no good lazy butt crew,the very same one we all pay for, that does f***all and whatever it does, is worthless anyway.
If we don't show up, we do not exist. We are in dire need for folks to move their okoles away from the big screen and show up with pitch and forks and remove the board by force if they don't resign, get rid of the management company asap and stop paying for the fees. Yes, it would catapult chaos. The other option is keep on moaning here until our fees keep increasing and we are enveloped by the forest. What would it take for folks to show up, 500 dollars a year fees,1000 a year??
If the roads ARE NOT maintained, then we would have to maintain them ourselves ANYWAY, won't we?. Yes, I know I am barking at the wrong tree... The tree is not even there!
jdo
Well Johnd I'm not happy with the 2 OLCA's board of directors either. But with keeping in tone of the holiday of Thanksgiving,would you rather live here or on an acre or two in North Dakota? Be thankful for what you got and just put up with HPP directors and road crew like they are mosquitoes that you can do nothing about. Look at the fees you spend on roads like they are mosquito coils or incense that you burn for the dead. We always have lots of hope for change but not much for results.
I've never really thought the "tone of Thanksgiving" means being exploited by those elected to represent me and having my hard earned money disappear into a black hole instead of going to maintain the roads in the manner they were when I bought in HPP. If people were demanding a higher level of road maintenance than in the past without paying for the service it would be one thing, but instead road maintenance has taken a huge dive and now they want us to pay more for less.
I am thankful I have two legs, but that doesn't mean I am going to let some punk steal my car just because some other guy is in a wheelchair.
Yes we all have different ways of thinking shockwave rider.
I have a contrarian way of dealing with the subdivision road racketeering. Always figure you are going to get screwed. If at times is does not happen then rejoice!
When you are forced to deal with the mafia you have to pay the juice. It is a cost of living expense.
I've been here for decades. Nothing changes when it comes to roads and the power people behind it.
Slow Walker
RE: HPP road maintainence - Katarina - 11-23-2016
Since I have been our of the loop for a few months this news is disheartening. Nothing has changed with new board members being added. From what I have learned via the coconut vine etc., the remaining board members were never interested in following the by-laws and the new one aren't even trying to learn them. They get around the one infected board member and lose any common sense and integrity they may have had. My road is a pure disaster and our fee's our going up? 2x now they have gone up and with no benefits. I guess the treasurer is in the frame of mind to screw the members instead of shaking up the board and creating a real budget. From what I heard, the Finance committee has had only 1 or 2 meetings and the GM and book keeper are not attending as they always had in the past plus not all reports are being made available to them. A simpleton can figure out what is going on here. They can never get anything done which is what is intended. It appears the treasurer will not stand his ground and demand what is needed and caves to the will of Jo. I've seen her. What is the deal. She is a nasty woman who can not open her mouth with out lying. She has caused all this chaos and blames anyone and everyone but herself. She is even trying to change the recall rules only because some have been trying to recall her. It has become apparent that the by-laws need to be revised and strengthened to prevent further Jo's but with her and her entourage, that will not likely happen. When the board feels free to hire multiple law firms to use their legal speak to twist and turn the truth and lies instead of acting like adults and actually sitting down and listening and discussing issues, nothing will change because us little folks can not use the membership funds like they can and freely do. The board is acting like they are the ones in charge and bypassing the members. There isn't anyone there with morals or this wouldn't keep happening. So HPPOA saga goes on and on and on. And our roads and community suffer. Thanks HPPOA board members. You are the ones who could fix all the crap that has occurred here in the last two years but you chose to join the ilk. So much for being hopeful.
RE: HPP road maintainence - My 2 cents - 11-23-2016
From my outsiders' point of view, I will not comment on your BoD activities. We have our own issues with OLCA. I will offer a perspective on the financial part: The $12,000,000 loan is a major cause of your situation. It was supposed to pave ALL of the roads, and only completed about 20% of that. Paying it back over 20 years at a total cost of $22,000,000 has crippled the HPPOA. Y'all got screwed. However, the 20% that did get done created an illusion. If you came to HPP 7-10 years ago you came during a $12,000,000 spending spree and saw an unprecedented amount (for HPP) of road work being done. It is unrealistic to think that that amount of road work can continue now that the loan has been used up and the note still has another 10 years left on it.
RE: HPP road maintainence - shockwave rider - 11-23-2016
quote:
Originally posted by My 2 cents
From my outsiders' point of view, I will not comment on your BoD activities. We have our own issues with OLCA. I will offer a perspective on the financial part: The $12,000,000 loan is a major cause of your situation. It was supposed to pave ALL of the roads, and only completed about 20% of that. Paying it back over 20 years at a total cost of $22,000,000 has crippled the HPPOA. Y'all got screwed. However, the 20% that did get done created an illusion. If you came to HPP 7-10 years ago you came during a $12,000,000 spending spree and saw an unprecedented amount (for HPP) of road work being done. It is unrealistic to think that that amount of road work can continue now that the loan has been used up and the note still has another 10 years left on it.
We already owned a house and multiple lots here in HPP before the paving bond was passed. I certainly never expected the whole subdivision to get paved, and certainly not our dead end, but I did expect the same level of maintenance that we had when we bought, and I absolutely think all our roads should be at least drivable without dodging axle busting craters.
Expecting new road work to get paved is one thing, expecting continuing on going maintenance of already built roads is another.
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 11-23-2016
IMO, what we see around the park today after close observation over the past 2+ yrs is bc of the following:
(I can't help it, I was on the Road Traffic Safety Committee for 4 yrs and it was our job to assess safety on our roads and easements for the membership and board)
1) Flora doesn't stop growing. It needs to be maintained regularly or you get what we all see around the park overtaking all of our roads horizontally and vertically, dirt and paved.
2) Road "maintenance" is maintaining/replacing what was already there, which includes road striping and reflectors. Asphalt roads also require maintenance as needed, and currently there's a pothole issue on a paved road. Monies budgeted for road maintenance is supposed to be used for that ONLY per our bylaws. If they're not putting $ into road material, which is physically evident around the park, then where's the $ going? I suspect chip seal...
3) When the road crew is pulled off their normal duties for weeks at a time, then the road and easement maintenance will obviously suffer. The 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 board made the decision last year to do chip seal in house, which includes all the prep work before chip seal is finally laid down. They were already behind on our road and easement maintenance. I asked the board a year ago how they planned to keep up with road and easement maintenance if our road crew is chip sealing. No response. The board decided around Sep 2015 to outsource the maintenance of our main drags to do catch up. The contractor's contract has been renewed this year, so it's not temporary as was intended in Sep 2015. What about all the crossroads that need maintenance?
4) Dirt roads need to have quality bonding mixture of road material replaced as needed and applied by experienced road crew who know how to properly roll, compact and grade. I think the last time material was laid down on my entire road was over 5 yrs ago. Most of the roads in the park look like they're in the same condition as mine - no road material just powder. The massive amt of pot holes on many of our roads are due to lack of road material, lack of maintenance, and weather and traffic conditions.
5) The board exists to manage our roads and will depend on a qualified GM with road knowledge and experience they won't have as volunteers. The GM's job is to manage our roads and easements professionally and on schedule. Since Jul 2014, we've had inexperienced people in charge as is evident when you look around the park. Those who have knowledge and kindly offered assistance are arrogantly turned away.
6) Dist 2 as a short term Pres last year but still currently on the board, made a public statement that we had $350,000 and we should use it for chip seal or it would "go to waste". Last year spring, a Dist 2 lot owner asked his rep for road material. She and Dist 5 rep who was interim GM at the time, told him they weren't dropping any road material bc they are saving $ for chip seal. Dist 5 rep also stated at a board mtg that the chip seal $ would come from road "maintenance". Chip sealing roads is not road "maintenance". It appears road maintenance funds were diverted to the chip seal project and they need more $ to do more chip sealed roads, hence the hike in road maint fees.
With lack of transparency, no checks and balances, no one knows exactly how much of our $ has been spent on the 3 chip sealed roads and 4th in progress. Rental of equipment costs, the emulsion, base coarse, road crew labor, and add to that the outsourcing of main drag easement maintenance. No engineer involvement, no proper permits etc.
7) Distraction to what the board should be focusing on has been convoluted with the lawsuit since 2014. The lawsuit is ongoing and causing internal damage to the association. What came out at a recent mtg is that our insurance rates skyrocketed because of the lawsuit.
The chip seal project has stalled due to the number of member complaints the GM has to tend to. I'm sure they will try and get back to chip sealing as soon as they can. Question: How do we maintain the weeds that are growing through the existing chip sealed roads? Poison? Think of that on a massive scale if all our dirt roads get chip sealed.
RE: HPP road maintainence - My 2 cents - 11-23-2016
I certainly never expected the whole subdivision to get paved, and certainly not our dead end, but I did expect the same level of maintenance that we had when we bought, and I absolutely think all our roads should be at least drivable without dodging axle busting craters.
Expecting new road work to get paved is one thing, expecting continuing on going maintenance of already built roads is another.
SW, as I understand it, "all roads will be paved" was the promise, and the phrase "except the dead ends" was added as soon as the ink was dry on the contract. I have several friends who live on dead ends that were considerably...we'll say annoyed by this deception. But the real issue is that when budgeting for the repayment of the loan, it was expected that all of the roads would be paved, or at least everything between Shower and Makuu. Therefore, very little money was budgeted for gravel/grading maintenance because with all of this paving, very little was to be required during the loan payback. It didn't work out that way, and now you have to pay the loan note AND do maintenance that wasn't expected or budgeted for. I believe that this is one of the major handicaps that your BoD has to deal with, along with all of the other personality conflicts that just seem to be part of the package in these associations. Anyway, I wish you luck, and if you get some, maybe you could send a little of it our way.
RE: HPP road maintainence - DTisme - 11-23-2016
Much of this is about road maintenance, per se, but there's also easement maintenance, and the jungle is taking over. Cars are getting scratched up by the tall grasses as they try to get around the potholes. I had a guy come to a stop from a lateral road at Maku'u today who couldn't see me coming bc of the height of the grasses and of course he pulled out in front of me. It is only a matter of time that someone gets killed because of the lack of maintenance. That may be obvious to all of us, but I wanted to put it in writing here come the day all that's said is going to matter in a court of law.
RE: HPP road maintainence - Frank - 11-23-2016
quote:
Originally posted by DTisme
Much of this is about road maintenance, per se, but there's also easement maintenance, and the jungle is taking over. Cars are getting scratched up by the tall grasses as they try to get around the potholes. I had a guy come to a stop from a lateral road at Maku'u today who couldn't see me coming bc of the height of the grasses and of course he pulled out in front of me. It is only a matter of time that someone gets killed because of the lack of maintenance. That may be obvious to all of us, but I wanted to put it in writing here come the day all that's said is going to matter in a court of law.
second that dt...ride my bike Paradise Ala Kai, e to ala haeau, and the cane grass is out of control...needs to be taken back please
RE: HPP road maintainence - EightFingers - 11-23-2016
What about the problem with big rocks that some people put in the easements? Or plantings? How does the road crew work around that?
RE: HPP road maintainence - mermaid53 - 11-23-2016
I had a close call w/a pedestrian recently on Beach Rd driving home from a mtg at night. Barely any center road striping, headlights coming towards me so I was concentrating on my placement on the road when suddenly in my headlights was a woman. She was unable to get off the road because of the overgrown easements. Luckily the opposing lane was still open so I could swerve around her. She was visibly shaken so I turned around and went back to see if she was ok.
I wrote a letter to the board bc I was so upset over the near accident which could've been avoided had the easements been maintained and center line been visible. I reminded them of their responsibilities and what appears to be a lack of concern for road safety. I said people are driving down the center of Beach Rd to avoid scratching the sides and tops of their car. That in many areas there's only half a lane bc of the overgrowth. I asked that they take care of L Rd as well as they have a similar problem there when there's bikers and walkers in the AM and afternoons. As a result they recently cut the easements back on Beach and K Rd, but not L Rd yet. I suggested 5' deep at least.
I had written the GM over a yr ago about Beach Rd and school kids having no easement to get off the road when there's 2 way traffic after they get dropped off by the school bus. I asked the GM to please consider putting the paved main feeder roads on the same maintenance schedule as the main drags. People tend to travel faster on paved roads. I thanked the GM for cutting the easements back then although it was only 18-24", hardly enough to get off the road, but was thankful for the effort.
Overgrown easements has eliminated the "as needed" bail out zones on most of our roads when there's 2 way traffic. The bail out zone should be minimum 5' wide on our crossroads and over 10' on our main drags which also opens up the line of sight, which is another major issue around the park. The interim GM was given this info last year as well as the current GM. They obviously don't think it's important. Neglect of easement maintenance raises potential liability.
I've asked a few times now over the past year and a half at board mtgs that they get the road striping and reflectors on the roads. Chip seal has taken precedence over the past year. This is another serious issue when people are going over 35 mph on the main drags and there's no ctr line or reflectors in large sections of the roadways. When it rains, it raises the level of danger even more. Still no striping or reflectors. I avoid Paradise and Makuu at night.
eightfingers, the crew usually just goes around easements that have encroachments. Hard to see dark rocks in the easements at night. I've seen people put rocks right on the edge of the asphalt fronting their property. That's so dangerous. The board and GM are responsible in enforcing encroachment issues but aren't doing that either.
Be safe and Happy Thanksgiving.
(edited for grammar)