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+--- Thread: The $680, no $800 million dollar plan for Puna (/showthread.php?tid=20071)
RE: The $680, no $800 million dollar plan for Puna - HiloPuna - 08-18-2018
Take a deep breath, neither the Legislature nor Congress will likely be funding the purchase of properties in the affected areas. The state budget is already under stress and we're the bluest of states with little congressional weight.
The best to hope for is affected owners will be eligible for loans to start over elsewhere. There will be other state support but from what I heard nothing comparable to that wish list
Harry's wish list was a disservice to the community in that it raised hopes (as well as concerns such as yours) and alienated the Legislature.
RE: The $680, no $800 million dollar plan for Puna - kalakoa - 08-18-2018
Harry's wish list ... raised hopes ... and alienated the Legislature.
See? He had a plan all along.
RE: The $680, no $800 million dollar plan for Puna - HiloPuna - 08-18-2018
Ironyak
You paraphrased (or possibly misquoted) me with:
...you know as well as I that the governmental altruism you speak of
Altruism is a practice or a virtue, based on a principal of selflessness or a concern for others. I wouldn't ever describe a government to have a virtue, instead they have public policies based on their constitution.
There are people that practice altruism and I suggested it could be a reason that Kai Kahele would intercede on Puna's behalf when it was not his "remit". Given his central position in the leadership group of the state senate he could probably be more effective than Sen Ruderman who is currently in the legislative equivalent of Siberia. Just ask him, it's cold out there....
I don't willfully or meanly "...dismiss other peoples concerns...", but I don't accept willful conjecture that extends to what amounts to be conspiracy theories. Whether they come from identifiable crackpots like Alex Jones or whether they come from concerned individuals who lack information or familiarity with how government and the community actually operate they should not be tolerated, never mind repeated.
Current pet peeve; the deplorable pejorative "deep state" when what every good government needs is even more "institutional wisdom".
RE: The $680, no $800 million dollar plan for Puna - reni - 08-18-2018
"Current pet peeve; the deplorable pejorative "deep state" when what every good government needs is even more "institutional wisdom".
What every good government needs, but may not prefer is an educated actively involved citizenry.
In my opinion, what we have now in the County of Hawaii borders on conflict of interest.
When the major employers here are the Government and Public Unions have such a stronghold on Political choice, we the people have so little say in anything.
Thank heavens for Punatalk......Ironyak, Kalakoa just to name a couple of our informed citizens!
Please Keep passing on your knowledge . And thank you, Rob
RE: The $680, no $800 million dollar plan for Puna - ironyak - 08-18-2018
HiloPuna - Altruism is a practice or a virtue, based on a principal of selflessness or a concern for others. I wouldn't ever describe a government to have a virtue
Finally we agree - I wouldn't describe government to have virtue either.
So County can pack it up, pack it in, let Puna beginto make the best choices for what we are in. (We won't ever slack up...
The fact that County may not get their $189 million does little to assuage the fact that an non-requested & non-discussed forced buyout is still being considered as a way to "help". How is a line item on a working budget sheet, discussed openly by the mayor's office with the local paper, a "conspiracy theory"?
Apparently you wish mostly to bandy words regarding altruism and remit, and belittle everyone as "concerned individuals who lack information or familiarity with how government and the community actually operate." Sorry, we're busy with houses & schools to repair and build, our roads to clear, and new beaches to explore. Perhaps Hilo will deign to help, but words empty as the wind are best left unsaid.
RE: The $680, no $800 million dollar plan for Puna - TomK - 08-18-2018
This is not related to the $680 million dollar stuff, but I am absolutely shocked by HiloPuna's defense of Kahele. Yes, he used a gut-and-replace technique and according to you that's just fine. However, what he did was re-introduce a bill that nearly 100% of public testimony was against. So, to get around that, he gutted a completely different bill and re-introduced it without the chance for public testimony. Are you really saying that's ethical? I can't even start to think there's anything ethical to that. Unless you're a politician.
Then, after that, he went around the islands making several presentations about his plan for replacing OMKM, which is fine, he can do that, but in his presentations would start off with complete lies about the TMT knowing that his changes would kill the TMT and probably the rest of astronomy on Mauna Kea. That is on record. Ethical? No way. Truthful? No. Simply after his own interests? I would have to say yes.
RE: The $680, no $800 million dollar plan for Puna - AaronM - 08-19-2018
Kai is a spoiled brat, Gil must not be happy. Awue!
RE: The $680, no $800 million dollar plan for Puna - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 09-05-2018
The League of Women Voters & Common Cause don’t seem to care much for the “gut & replace” practice used in the Hawaii legislature. They’re asking the process be declared unconstitutional. I hope they’re successful. It may be a legal legislative maneuver (for now) but by circumventing citizen input, it seems like a remnant from the bygone era of smoke filled back rooms.
Two government watchdog groups today sued Hawaii for enacting legislation without giving the public the proper chance to weigh in.
The complaint from the League of Women Voters of Honolulu and Common Cause challenges the legislative practice known as “gut and replace.” It refers to lawmakers stripping a bill of its original content and substituting it with something entirely different.
Gut and replace “cuts the public out of the process... The watchdog groups want the court to void that law and declare the process used to adopt it unconstitutional.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/09/05/breaking-news/groups-sue-to-stop-gut-and-replace-at-hawaii-legislature/
At a White House meeting in June, President Trump reportedly told Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe that “I remember Pearl Harbor.”
RE: The $680, no $800 million dollar plan for Puna - ironyak - 09-05-2018
I sincerely hope this succeeds - gut & replace seems to run directly contrary to Sunshine Law and other efforts at transparency in government.
Oh, and now the County wants $800 million in recovery funds so time to make some friends in the Mayor's Office.
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2018/08/31/hawaii-news/county-wish-list-grows-to-800m/