+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July (/showthread.php?tid=21045)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Frank - 07-29-2019
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
does the State give a crap about the Hawaiians plight?
State's financial ineptitude is not about race or religion.
Would you go so far as to call it GREED/self indulgence with someone else's money?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - geochem - 07-29-2019
quote:
Originally posted by Frank
......there is that follow the money collected and doled out (at the States discretion I might add) by the State...Fair? does the State give a crap about the Hawaiians plight? Reckoning may be upon the State and Hawaiians will get their fair share...Management of that share is another thread
see entire post @ http://www.punaweb.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26358
Define for me "fair"... The State collects lease fees for ceded lands: 20% of those funds go directly to OHA (someone please correct me if I am wrong here) as do, I believe, 20% of mineral/geothermal royalties specifically and exclusively for Hawaiians' benefit. The upshot is that Hawaiians benefit from 80% of the income from ceded lands proportionately to all the rest of Hawaii's residents but get a carve out of 20% exclusively for them.
Part of the unhappiness on the part of OHA is that the telescope leases are paid in-kind rather than as income to the University that OHA can get "their" 20% carve out and hence, the benefits to the University are distributed proportionately to Hawaiians' participation at the University. However, some (many?) of those leases were executed before implementing the 20% carve out for OHA.
Is a 20% carve-out insufficient? If not, what is sufficient? And how do you propose to deal with the activist faction that insists that all ceded lands be turned over to exclusive control of Hawaiians?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - macuu222 - 07-29-2019
I still say this whole blockage thing smells of money. Someone/s with an obscene amount of money who didn't like the supreme court decision is controlling (buying) a few locals with influence to pull this off.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-29-2019
I still say this whole blockage thing smells of money.
If only Hawaii had a Woodward & Bernstein.
It should be even easier than uncovering the trail to the Watergate conspirators.
"Follow the money, it smells."
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Punatic007 - 07-29-2019
Hopefully there will be lots of rain and wind on the access road for the lovely protesters with the upcoming hurricanes.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - PaulW - 07-29-2019
I've always thought this anti-telescope nonsense has to do with money too. But, there's no need for a mysterious benefactor, people will protest almost anything for free. The money part is the thought of over $1B being spent and some people think they should get a taste of it. Almost any opinion piece written by a protestor (or their cheerleaders here) eventually turns to talk of dollars. It's simple extortion.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 07-29-2019
the thought of over $1B being spent and some people think they should get a taste
I've been saying this all along.
Perhaps TMT should just double its budget. It worked for rail.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Frank - 07-29-2019
quote:
Originally posted by geochem
quote:
Originally posted by Frank
......there is that follow the money collected and doled out (at the States discretion I might add) by the State...Fair? does the State give a crap about the Hawaiians plight? Reckoning may be upon the State and Hawaiians will get their fair share...Management of that share is another thread
see entire post @ http://www.punaweb.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26358
Define for me "fair"... The State collects lease fees for ceded lands: 20% of those funds go directly to OHA (someone please correct me if I am wrong here) as do, I believe, 20% of mineral/geothermal royalties specifically and exclusively for Hawaiians' benefit. The upshot is that Hawaiians benefit from 80% of the income from ceded lands proportionately to all the rest of Hawaii's residents but get a carve out of 20% exclusively for them.
Part of the unhappiness on the part of OHA is that the telescope leases are paid in-kind rather than as income to the University that OHA can get "their" 20% carve out and hence, the benefits to the University are distributed proportionately to Hawaiians' participation at the University. However, some (many?) of those leases were executed before implementing the 20% carve out for OHA.
Is a 20% carve-out insufficient? If not, what is sufficient? And how do you propose to deal with the activist faction that insists that all ceded lands be turned over to exclusive control of Hawaiians?
Fair in $$ sense has not reveled itself yet...OHA’s annual revenue is capped at around $15 million. ONLY $15 mil?..after 40 years of doing business together with the State??
can we begin here?...https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/04/oha-presses-for-a-bigger-share-of-money-from-hawaiis-trust-lands/
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 07-29-2019
Latest news release from Maunakea Obvservatories.
"Contrary to recent reports, the Maunakea Observatories have not made a deal with activists for ongoing access to our telescope facilities.
Since the Maunakea Observatories' directors made the joint decision to remove all remaining personnel from Maunakea on Tuesday, July 16, there has been no consistent staff presence at our telescope facilities to provide the kind of regular maintenance required by our complex systems and delicate instrumentation.
We continue to closely monitor the health of our telescopes remotely from our base facilities. As issues that are critically time-sensitive are identified for technology that is at risk of significant damage, the Observatories notify law enforcement and the Office of Maunakea Management. If law enforcement tells the Observatories that our staff will not be blocked from entering and exiting the Maunakea Access Road, the Observatory directors carefully assess the situation and, if the safety risk is determined to be low, send a small crew of the smallest number of technicians needed to successfully complete the work required.
These efforts are urgent technical work required to prevent irreversible damage to the telescopes and instruments. With the current level of access, the Observatories are still unable to resume operations.
For regular operations, our observatories need safe, consistent access to our facilities for not only technicians, but all of our staff - and our local contractors and vendors - in order to keep our facilities functional.
The Maunakea Observatories continue to support the efforts of state and county law enforcement to restore safe and reliable conditions on the Maunakea Access Road."
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - MarkP - 07-29-2019
It would be a huge mistake to make any sort of deals. If free access is not possible given the players involved, oh well.... I guess that Hawaii is not a place where normal conduct can be counted on. Perhaps some sort of hazard pay would be in order. I imagine that observatories won't have that in their budget.