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+--- Thread: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July (/showthread.php?tid=21045)
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RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 07-29-2019
the efforts of state and county law enforcement to restore safe and reliable conditions
There are efforts?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - geochem - 07-29-2019
quote:
Originally posted by Frank
Fair in $$ sense has not reveled itself yet...OHA’s annual revenue is capped at around $15 million. ONLY $15 mil?..after 40 years of doing business together with the State??
can we begin here?...https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/04/oha-presses-for-a-bigger-share-of-money-from-hawaiis-trust-lands/
Thanks for that clarification and for the link to the Civil Beat article. Interesting discussion there as well.
I guess one might ask what has been accomplished for $600M (give or take $100M) what has been accomplished for that - and, secondly, whether directing more money toward OHA would have improved that record or further degraded it. But, as you say, that may be a subject for another thread...
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - leilanidude - 07-29-2019
Couldn't the existing observatories sue the state and county for failing to keep the road accessible?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-29-2019
ironyak said: HOTPE might be reading into it a bit but the notion of a western technological monument on the highest point
I think my post (on page 49) was too much of a sketch, and didn't communicate the point I attempted to make very well. I'll try and fill in the blanks.
Brief recap:
* People, religions, cultures... prefer the belief that they’re the center of the universe.
* When Copernicus & Galileo made discoveries which challenged the importance of the church and individuals, it reduced them to a speck in the vastness of space.
How does the TMT (and astronomy as a whole) directly, as a tangible in-your-face asset affect the average resident on the Big Island? Will it fix the roads? Put beer on sale permanently? Pay us a bonus at the end of the year like the oil fund dividend in Alaska? If you don't have a job at one of the observatories you won't see the jobs. If your kid doesn't get a STEM scholarship you won't see the educational value. The secondary benefits (of which there are many), go unnoticed and ignored. That's why a woman can in all seriousness hold up her cell phone at the proposed mini rocket launch meeting and begin her comments with "we don't need your technology." The historical connection between the Apollo space program with its need for micro miniaturized electronics, computers, international communication links, and astronomy to calculate the distance and diameter of the moon is not something everyone knows about or understands. But the space program brought us the smart phone, and people do in fact want that technology.
So when the TMT is blamed for the problems of Native Hawaiian people, and someone presents a proposal for a better world, one which will put Hawaiians back in the center of the universe whether through the Hawaiian Kingdom, Kingdom of Hawaii, or Na'i Aupuni it will have an appeal. Few will stop to ask for details about the plan, or whether the leadership will be an improvement over DHHL and OHA. It's an emotional appeal and an emotional response, with minimal effort. 100% of success requires showing up. When participants and supporters see the news coverage, say hi to the Rock, they know they're again a part of something that feels consequential, perhaps like their ancestors who followed Kamehameha and 'united' the islands. Let's ignore the overall cost and devastation of that unification for now. Let's follow a leader who declares "you're not a spoke in the wheel! You're the hub again, around which all things revolve and which could not revolve without you.
The TMT may be big, too big, but if it's stopped people will credit the monumental power of Hawaiians for overcoming something immense. It will feel like a victory. Afterward will anyone ask "what's next?" If they do ask will they get get an answer? Will anyone offer them a homestead for their efforts?. Or will they go home and like the South occasionally fly their flags and say - - someday, we're gonna rise again.
Look at other leaders around the world who based their power on an emotional appeal. It didn't matter if what they said was logical, or true, or made sense, it only had to make their supporters feel important as a group and an individual. Not a dust speck, an atom or an insignificant electron in the vast universe like science tells them they are, or government makes them feel.
Of course, for most of those leaders and their followers, it didn't usually end well.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - reni - 07-29-2019
posted by Tom,
Latest news release from Maunakea Obvservatories.
"Contrary to recent reports, the Maunakea Observatories have not made a deal with activists for ongoing access to our telescope facilities.
Aloha Tom, what I read is that the State had made an agreement...
"UPDATE: The state, however, has confirmed that an agreement was made. “In order to enable at least some access by observatory technicians, limited access has been granted to cultural practitioners blocking the road,” said Dan Dennison, the Senior Communications Manager for the Hawai#699;i Department of Land & Natural Resources. “The observatories are not parties to this conversation,” he added."
source: Big Island Video
.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - rainyjim - 07-29-2019
I don’t understand that statement by BIVN, but hey - what else is new?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 07-29-2019
That statement by Dennison just confuses the matter even more, it would have been better if he hadn't said anything. Despite what Kanuha claimed, no deal was made between the protesters and the state and/or the observatories on Sunday. Dennison is referring to a deal that has been in place for several days, ever since a Gemini crew was refused access, that observatory crew (technicians only) could get to the summit if the protesters could send a car up as well. This was an agreement made between the state and the protesters to allow observatory staff to be able to carry out urgent and critical work to prevent instruments being damaged.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - macuu222 - 07-29-2019
Harry Kim agrees with protest leaders to put traffic light in at Mauna Kea Access road. What's next? A 7/11?
https://www.khon2.com/news/local-news/state-adding-temporary-traffic-signal-at-intersection-of-daniel-k-inouye-hwy-and-mauna-kea-road/
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Punatic007 - 07-29-2019
quote:
Originally posted by macuu222
Harry Kim agrees with protest leaders to put traffic light in at Mauna Kea Access road. What's next? A 7/11?
https://www.khon2.com/news/local-news/state-adding-temporary-traffic-signal-at-intersection-of-daniel-k-inouye-hwy-and-mauna-kea-road/
I don't know but I think we have entered the twilight zone.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 07-29-2019
I'm not sure how Kim fits into this. It seems to be a state decision.