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+--- Thread: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition (/showthread.php?tid=15831)
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - leilanidude - 04-26-2015
opihikao - beautifully stated, again. Thank you for your response!
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - TomK - 04-26-2015
Ironically, it seems the MK protesters have introduced fire ants to the area around the VIS on Mauna Kea. The Law of Unintended Consequences I guess.
Story is behind a Star Advertiser paywall I'm afraid: http://tinyurl.com/ozf5zq4
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - PaulW - 04-26-2015
opihikao says:
"my written testimony to the State (BLNR/DLNR, etc.), University of Hawaii (BOR), Office of Hawaiian Affairs (OHA), is in support of the TMT, with conditions."
That is good news, thank you.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - MarkP - 04-26-2015
Gypsy69 does make some wild allegations but there is a statement about Maunakea, the atmosphere, and 40% that could be made that is relatively accurate. Maunakea is not 40% above the atmosphere, the peak of Maunakea is above 40% of the atmosphere (by mass). At 17,000' msl, half of the atmosphere's molecules are below you. Another 17,000' takes you up through half of what's left, and so on. Of course you never get to the "edge" of the atmosphere. There is no edge or boundary in reality, only by some arbitrary definition of where space begins. The atmosphere does get reeeely thin though to the point that the average layman would think there is none and therefor that there must be some convenient dividing line.
"Maunakea gave life and reasons to live, now man is making her a silent killer"? Let's just say you were carried away by emotion and leave it at that. Otherwise I'd be tempted to say it is the distillation of everything idiotic about this protest movement.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - SuperGu - 04-26-2015
quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
I maintain, this somewhat "revolution" is not about TMT; our Mauna a Wakea/Mauna Kea, is providing a platform for resolution to an age old debate. As we argue the specific points of the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom/Government, the facts remain the same. Reparation is due to the Hawaiian people. No question.
Thank you for your post. It confirms what I've been saying all along. This is not about TMT. It's about reparation. Follow the money...
********
* ALOHA *
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RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - leilanidude - 04-27-2015
Thanks TonmK for the LFA story.
Here is the "free snippet" one can see:
-------------
Invasive ants found at protest site
Pests common at lower elevations on Mauna Kea are seen at the 9,400-foot level
By William Cole
POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, Apr 26, 2015
Mauna Kea protesters who want to stop the Thirty Meter Telescope apparently brought with them a potentially destructive force of a different kind — invasive ants.
As part of its duties, the Office of Mauna Kea Management monitors for invasive species around the Hawaii island summit, including on deliveries of equipment for existing telescopes and astronomy, said Fritz Klasner, natural resource program manager. Login for more...
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RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - Guest - 04-27-2015
Little fire ants have the potential to hitch a ride in any vehicle up the mountain. Did anyone really check any of the bulldozers or earthmovers for fire ants before they were hauled to the summit? Where was this equipment and guys working just before the ground breaking of the 6.9 acres of maunakea? Yes a protector could have brought a few of these fireants, why are these protectors having to be their anyway?
As for my prior statement of Maunakea possibly becoming a silent killer, sorry to ruffle some feathers. See back in 1960 when these giant eyes in the sky were first being built they were backed financially by our military. We know where our enemy is on this planet by using these eyes in the sky. Of course technology is advancing rapidly, the Keck twin scopes couldn't be outdated yet could they?
Is it possible to see much on planet earth using this new tmt telescope, could they use mirrors or reflectors to see were missiles could be launched from?. Could Maunakea become a target in the future to disrupt computers, information, or other Intel?. Could our military want to use decommissioned telescopes in the future if they run out of said funding? I guess I am not sure of all the purposes this Godzilla telescope will be useful for, could other countries tie into and use this telescope from afar?. Canada and Japan seem to be on board but not willing to put this on one of their peaks, why not?. Hypertheticle here of course, could we put reflectors on the moon or space Hubble to follow back light to its original place it started? If so we could have proof to how the universe first came about, or have proof that Iran fired first into isreal, before we send our drones from the intel used on top of Maunakea to kill millions of iranians. Opinions and uneducated concerns.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - PaulW - 04-27-2015
I think you're having trouble understanding what a telescope is and how it's used. It's like saying binoculars are used to kill chickens.
Please, get some education.
Behold the type of people who are against the telescope.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - shockwave rider - 04-27-2015
quote:
Originally posted by gypsy69
Little fire ants have the potential to hitch a ride in any vehicle up the mountain. Did anyone really check any of the bulldozers or earthmovers for fire ants before they were hauled to the summit? Where was this equipment and guys working just before the ground breaking of the 6.9 acres of maunakea? Yes a protector could have brought a few of these fireants, why are these protectors having to be their anyway?
As for my prior statement of Maunakea possibly becoming a silent killer, sorry to ruffle some feathers. See back in 1960 when these giant eyes in the sky were first being built they were backed financially by our military. We know where are enemy is on this planet by using these eyes in the sky. Of course technology is advancing rapidly, the Keck twin scopes couldn't be outdated yet could they?
Is it possible to see much on planet earth using this new tmt telescope, could they use mirrors or reflectors to see were missiles could be launched from?. Could Maunakea become a target in the future to disrupt computers, information, or other Intel?. Could our military want to use decommissioned telescopes in the future if they run out of said funding? I guess I am not sure of all the purposes this Godzilla telescope will be useful for, could other countries tie into and use this telescope from afar?. Canada and Japan seem to be on board but not willing to put this on one of their peaks, why not?. Hypertheticle here of course, could we put reflectors on the moon or space Hubble to follow back light to its original place it started? If so we could have proof to how the universe first came about, or have proof that Iran fired first into isreal, before we send our drones from the intel used on top of Maunakea to kill millions of iranians.
The "protectors" brought palm fronds and other vegetation to construct their shelters up there. LFAs love palms and are very easily spread by transporting vegetation from one part of the island to another, this is how the Hilo beach parks got infested, people brought greenery for decorating pavilions for celebrations and inadvertently spread the LFAs into our parks. Vehicles and equipment can spread LFAs, but hauling any vegetation up there is probably a very bad idea if you want to protect the native ecosystem.
RE: We Support TMT - Please sign the petition - ironyak - 04-27-2015
FYI, it's not little fire ants that were found:
"
Doing a cursory survey of the protest area around April 16, ants that are common at lower elevations but haven't gained a foothold on Mauna Kea's heights were discovered in a pile of palms that was being used to thatch a hale across from the visitor information station at about 9,400 feet, Klasner said.
Klasner said six of the little black critters known as Ochetellus glaber were collected and others were observed."
Rob - can you weigh in on posting content on PW from behind a paywall?