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+--- Thread: The Great Spirit (/showthread.php?tid=16183)
RE: The Great Spirit - MarkP - 09-16-2015
How am I supposed to read a book like Empire of the Summer Moon and reconcile it with this Native American Code of Ethics? Even the League of the Iroquoise by Lewis Henry Morgan mentions in passing how very early in their history as a people they were in conflict with another tribe, and THEY WIPED THAT TRIBE OUT. I am working from memory but I remember reading that and thinking that this information came from the oral history of the Iroquoise and that they were essentially proud of it as a defining moment for them. The book itself was written in 1851. Had it been written today nobody would have admitted to being proud of committing genocide. The Iroquoise confederacy itself was based on the need to consolidate power and ensure protection and it was developed prior to western contact. The Iroquoise literally oppressed weaker tribes and colonized their territory in the same way that modern apologists like to blame Europeans for.
I also recall reading a paper on the practice of scalping in North America. Anthropologists uncovered archaeological evidence from the 1300s in the plains that showed how common scalping was, that people often survived being scalped, and that the ratio of male victims to female and child victims was something like 60/40. Combining that with information from early interviews with Native Americans, it was clear that they had no problem with scalping children. In fact bring back the scalp of a child proved your bravery to an exceptional degree in that you had to have penetrated all the enemies defenses to get it.
So as a reality check to see how relevant this Native American Code of Ethics is, first ask, which Native Americans?
RE: The Great Spirit - Punatic007 - 09-16-2015
Where have you been Ted for all these decades? Seems you are stuck in a southern white gated community time warp?
Seems most white folk these days are less racist than the minorities which are becoming the majorities.
RE: The Great Spirit - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 09-16-2015
It is only in the European race that we see blue, green, purple, gray eyes and red, blonde, brunette hair, now found to be due to mutations.
Homo sapiens evolved in Africa. From there they spread across the world to Europe, Asia, America, Polynesia, etc. Resident populations of all those areas have an equal amount of mutation due to natural selection and genetic drift over time. Hair and eye color is not the only indication of genetic mutation.
DNA analysis is showing the European race has the most Neanderthal DNA
Both European and Asian DNA contain 2-4% Neanderthal DNA.
RE: The Great Spirit - Opihikaobob - 09-16-2015
Thanks opihikao
A beautiful post, with good intentions from a good hearted person.
Unfortunately hijacked by creatures who do not have either.
RE: The Great Spirit - shockwave rider - 09-16-2015
quote:
Originally posted by rbbyrd
quote:
Originally posted by Derrick Barnicoat
You are obviously free to use the words of your choosing. I am personally not comfortable with anyone using that word but we have freedom of speech, supposedly, so if people want to talk like a slave trader then it is their karma. Realize that if you use a word that people were bought,sold, raped, murdered and exploited under it's going to hurt people's feelings and some people will get angry just because of the connotation. Use that word and people will make certain judgements about you. You use words like that and people will assume you are a certain type of person. You want to talk like a nazi though, have at it. I won't be hanging around you too much. I chock name calling up to ignorance and generally foul behavior but racism is a much, much larger issue. I don't know how old you are but you sound like you have graduated elementary school. So I don't have to explain to you how to not be an asshole. It's up to you to figure that out.
Very interesting response:
"I chock name calling up to ignorance and generally foul behavior...."
"So I don't have to explain to you how to not be an asshole."
Your words, not mine.
Let me rephrase the question. Given that the word "haole" has, over the years, come to mean "white person", would it be racist/racism when a native Hawaiian calls a white person a "f****** haole"?
This time try to actually answer the question without insults and name-calling. I'll stipulate that I'm an asshole; my wife tells me that on a daily basis.
RB Byrd
Flower Mound, TX
It is the f****** preceding haole that makes it offensive. I've been called haole as a descriptor in non offensive ways, but if I am called a f****** haole it is an insult and a slur. I can't imagine you didn't really know that when you posed the question.
RE: The Great Spirit - Hawaii Bound - 09-16-2015
Shockwave, sorry, I don't mean to speak for someone else but he was referring to the quote of "...If you look at what racism is you would see it is not even possible for native americans or hawaiians to even be racist. As a population they are not even in the position to be racist"
In my opinion, he was simply stating that anyone can be racist. Honestly for someone to say that someone can't be racist at all due to their heritage, ethnicity, etc is one the absolute dumbest things I have every read.
RE: The Great Spirit - Derrick Barnicoat - 09-16-2015
Calling someone a racial slur is rude, inconsiderate and definitely insulting but when people who are the brunt of a racism call racism it is about more than that. Hawaiian's or the plantation workers who came up with the term haole were not the ones exploiting and abusing others. They either came to the islands to work or were here several generations. But they were not the conquerors. They were never the imperialists. They don't have a history of exploiting caucasians. So when a caucasian calls an african american the N word it is actually more than just being called a name. Africans were bought, sold, raped, murdered, tortured etc. while being called that word. So being caucasian (the same race as slave owners, colonial imperialists, etc.) and throwing the N word is an extremely loaded statement that defines a person as either extremely ignorant or racist and abusive. If you want to put that idea in peoples head that is your call. If african americans use the word it is far less loaded and, although I don't agree with it, it is their call if they want to use it. By the way, your ignorance is on display when you think that when you hear a african american use the n word it represents the collective opinion of the entire race. People are individuals and they have the freedom to use the words they choose to express themselves.
Plain and simple racism is about history repeating itself not nasty name calling.
RE: The Great Spirit - MarkP - 09-16-2015
I disagree. Racism is based on decisions that individuals make in the moment. Individuals are responsible for their own decisions. Blaming anything on history is a cop-out.
RE: The Great Spirit - Derrick Barnicoat - 09-16-2015
It not blaming history if history is repeating itself in the present.
So if racism is based on individuals and individuals are responsible for their actions then that means there is nothing we can do to have equality in this world. That sounds more like a cop out to me.
I agree individuals will do what they are going to do but if the relatives of imperialist europeans get a pass on abusing and exploiting the less privileged there will be a consistent and justified backlash. I could care less if an individual wants to be insulting with their language but when one portion of the population tramples on the freedom and rights of another portion of the population there is no freedom and there are no rights. We are all in this together so if we don't help each other progress there is no progress for anyone.
RE: The Great Spirit - malolo - 09-16-2015
Pardon the interruption but t suddenly occurred to me that it's been a long long time since PunaWeb participants took a deep (thankful) breath together, and engaged in a light-hearted grin-inducing life-is-good backyard sing-along:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UzISuy-o4_Q
Have a great day tomorrow folks.