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+--- Thread: Best Air Rifle? (/showthread.php?tid=17024)
RE: Best Air Rifle? - birdmove - 03-29-2017
Those are good prices. Especially for the "Nitro Piston". The nitro uses a gas instead of the traditional coiled springs used in the "spring pistom" models. This, for those not knowing the difference. Use of a gas piston is said to make the shots smoother, with less recoil. Also, carrying the airgun around all day cocked and locked when hunting won't degrade the power like it will with a spring piston.
Jon in Keaau/HPP
RE: Best Air Rifle? - MarkP - 06-29-2017
Since I bought the Benjamin Trail NPXL 1100 going on a couple of years ago I have been reading voraciously on the net anything I can find about them. Basically it is a piece of crap. There are a lot of other fools like me out there though. The net is awash with descriptions of all the "upgrades" people do merely to get these things to shoot straight since apparently a significant number of them don't right out of the box. I am hugely embarrassed to be one of those who kept trying instead of just demanding my money back. C'mon, the things people do as fixes should have been done by the manufacturer, and that's IF the fixes actually work. I did send the gun back once. They didn't fix it, they sent me a new one. Before that they sent me a scope or two. My place is littered with broken scopes. The scopes always slipped in the rings until by various means like epoxying them in place or over tightening the rings til they dented the scope I got them to stay put in the rings. They then started to shift internally (break). Also the screws holding the stock on were never up to the task of withstanding the recoil. They would always get loose. After that as far as the scope was concerned the gun weighed half what it did and the recoil was twice as bad.
The gun supposedly puts out 30 ft-lbs per shot. Of course that is hype. I did see 25 ft-lbs a couple of times but it has been decreasing lately. maybe the gas strut is leaking. Anyway some youtube videos showed nearly 30 if they can be believed. My point is that this gun weighs hardly any more than several more proven guns that have only half the power. Like putting a huge outboard on a rickety old skiff it is shaking itself to pieces. Notwithstanding the posters out there who either inexplicably have had no problems or don't know any better, there are occasional posters who come right out and say it. One such poster after pointing out how ridiculous it is to do all these mods to a gun just to get it to perform to a minimal standard, said to give it up. Not worth it. Specifically, can't be fixed. The problem is in the barrel which has large sections so out of spec that pellets often fall through under their own weight.
Well that got me thinking. I tested my barrel and indeed although the pellets were tight at the breach they got loose further on and basically fell the last half of the barrel. But is this normal among air rifles, I ask myself? Tried the same test with my old Gamo 220. Pretty uniformly tight from end to end.
Well that really tears it. Apparently the wild fliers I routinely get are due in part to the barrel functioning not unlike a pachinko machine. Furthermore I discovered this not on my own but because others had the same experience. I had already torn the gun open and replaced the piston seal which was damaged from the rough machining and careless installation. The original breach seal had also been leaking straight out of the box. Due to these leaks the piston was probably hitting the end of the compression chamber and that was messing up the scopes. The stock screws are not up to the task, further aggravating the whole scope failure issue. Who knows, maybe the loose fit of the pellets is creating another leak to make the scope shock worse on top of allowing the pellet to leave the barrel in a direction other than where the barrel was pointed. All of this right out of the box.
No returning the gun now. At some point I decided to try my own fixes. The most dramatic was adding about 4 lbs of steel to the action. This also allowed me to fix the action to the stock with 16 screws instead of 3. It appears to no longer destroy scopes. They used to slide in the rings unless glued in or over-tightened. Now moderate tightening holds them in place with electrical tape as shimming between scope and rings. In the past the scope would creep like that. So that part is "fixed" if you don't mind a 15 lb gun, which is what it should weigh to keep the power to weight ration in line. Ironically the gun is shooting the best it ever has now. It should. However there are still flyers and even without the flyers I am lucky to keep the pellets on a 3" stick-on target at 15 yards. That's pretty dismal.
So as a reality check has anyone else tried pushing a pellet slowly through the barrel to feel the resistance at all points? It's not supposed to get loose at the end? This was probably the problem all along, right?
RE: Best Air Rifle? - birdmove - 06-30-2017
Sorry you are having such a hard time with your Crosman. That gun is a heavy magnum level. Don't know if you ran across Kenny Kormandy's review of this gun, but ere it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Y24YS6fEw
Kenny is a good no be reviewer, and he will tell it like it is. He has recently had a terrible time with Gamo air rifles. One review, he had to return the first two he got due to problems. He has, like me, recently been diagnosed with cancer. His is esophogeal, while mine is prostate.
I believe your rifle was made in the USA and was a fairly early model. Some of the early ones actually broke the welds for the mounted Weaver rail, and the scope and mount would fly off.
I have not tried shoving a pellet down any of my barrels. You could join at Gateway to Airguns forum, and do a search there. I don't think it's normal to have the tolerance open up towards the muzzle. Rather some owners have found that the tolerance, at least sometimes, tightens up near the muzzle. I wonder if the Crosman folks might ship you a new barrel, despite being off warranty. I'd contact them about that.
Is yours a .22 or a .177? Kenny always chrony's his test guns, and sometimes that reveals a problem. A damaged piston seal is all too common, when the maker damages it on installation.
I am no expert on brake barrels. You must have made a spring compressor to work on that magnum springer?
If your trigger is terrible, like most Crosman break barrle models, there are two easy fixes. One is to replace the factiry trigger adjusting screw with a longer m3 x 10mm screw. Search forn that on Youtube, and you should find Kenny's video on that one, and one or more on a bearing installation for the trigger.
For these problems on magnum level break barrels, I lean towards one with a more moderate velocity. I already a scope destroying Crosman Phantom in .177, and a more recent Crosman F4, which is a nitro piston model in .177. When I grab an air rifle to target shoot (or to try to bag a rat at night), I reach for one of my multi pumps.
Jon in Keaau/HPP
RE: Best Air Rifle? - MarkD - 06-30-2017
Just perused this thread for first time. Wow. What a broad group of people interested in air guns. The detail in comparing gun characteristics rivals anything I have seen on NRA-affliated websites.
Is this all for target shooting competitions in backyards? I think I saw rats mentioned only several times. My interest in all this is that we ought to begin culling the feral chickens that are spreading everywhere.
My air gun broke some time back; am poised to buy a new one and start chicken-hunting again. Am interested in hearing any comments on firing air guns with city/town limits; I know almost all of Puna is no problem (barring encroaching on a neighbor's property). Our Hilo house is starting to get encroached on.
To any animal rights protectors, I respectively opine that if you like the birds, you are free to get a cage or area in your backyard and keep some chicken pets. Regarding the other thousands of birds running around, sorry but they are fair game. Just like rats.
(If all folks in a given neighborhood agree on having the birds, fine. People who object to the birds do not go to other neighborhoods and kill them. They only kill them around their own houses.) (Yes there might be exceptions but they are rather rare.)
RE: Best Air Rifle? - terracore - 06-30-2017
I wouldn't use an air rifle short of a PCP on chickens unless it's accurate and you can get a head shot.
Chicken organs are minuscule and nearly impossible to hit, and even a nitro break barrel doesn't have enough stopping power to kill without a heart or head shot unless you get lucky. More than likely you'll just injure the animal and it will get away. The only real way to have success is to shoot the animal from the front, which is impossible if it's trying to get away from you. If you shoot from the side or behind, the wings will absorb the pellet energy and only wound the bird. Even a standard velocity .22 round (the firearm variety) hit center mass won't necessarily kill a chicken, but a high velocity hollow point works every time.
If shooting a firearm isn't an option in your area, the most humane way to do it is to trap them, put them in a "comfort cone", and slice the jugular. I stopped hunting them with an air rifle because even with a clean head shot I was running after them and having finish the job by hand.
RE: Best Air Rifle? - birdmove - 06-30-2017
I have a Crosman Custom Shop 2400KT. That is an area at their website where you basically build your gun as you want it, they make it, and ship it too you. This gun is down right now, as the seal that seals the CO2 "Powerlet" is toast. The gun has about a 15" barrel, no open sights, the Crosman skeleton buttstock, and a steel breech. I believe I paid about $85.00 plus freight. It is a .177 caliber.
I bought a TKO muzzle brake, which makes this air rifle super quiet. The gun likes Crosman Hunter pellets very much. This is a pointed pellet, and is not very expensive. I needed to take out a chicken, and figured 15 yards would be doable. The gun has the accuracy for a chicken head shot at that distance. My opportunity came, and I grabbed the rifle. Took the head shot. That rooster ran about 15 yards and dropped dead.
True, a more powerful PCP like, say a Crosman Maximus, maybe in .22 caliber may have been a better airgun. But, I did a lot of terget shooting at 15 yards with my 2400, and had total confidence in pellet placement. Since I have seen, when I was a little tyke, my mom cut the head off a rooster, and that headless beast ran around in circles for quite some time, I felt that a 15 yard run before dropping dead was a humane kill. The rooster probably was dead instantly, and ran a little on nerves.
CO2 isn't my favorite power source, but there are some fine airguns available using the small CO2 cartridge. TKO makes a similiar muzzle brake for the Crosman Maximus, and I highly suggest an owner, wanting QUIET, gets one. The quietest CO2 rifle from the factory, is certaily the fine Umarex Fusion. These need nothing else to quiet them down. These run about $150-$170.00. This gun takes two of the small CO2 cans, but, if you put one empty one in with a full one, you can run it on one. That means you don't have to take as many shots to empty the CO2 can. Why is this important? Because I strongly urge not to leave the CO2 can in the airgun when you put it away. I guarantee your seal will not last too long if you put it away with the can in the gun. And, you need to always use a drop or two of either Pellgunoil (expensive for what you get), or 20 or 30 weight non detergent oil. Ace Hardware sells these by the quart, and a quart may last you the rest of your life.
The Fusion is only in .177 caliber. The Benjamin 2260MB, is a nice CO2 rifle, and it's all metal and wood. It comes with a steel breech (hence the MB in the 2260MB). It uses just one CO2 can, and is only available in .22 caliber. I like these a lot.
PCP airguns are very cool, using compressed air to provide the power. Study up on these if you buy one. If you get one that runs at a 300 psi fill pressure, then you will need either an air compressor (and not one like you have in your garage), or another air tank you fill it from. I like the PCP guns that operate and fill to 2000 PSA, as you can buy hand pumps that will fill them (and not your tire pump either). You might get around 30 full power shots on a fill. Don't include the Crosman Wildfire on your list of good PCP airguns, as it is a "plinker" only, and not a serious tool. The Maximus is a fine shooting PCP air rifle that doesn't cost much, fills to 2000 PSI with a hand pump, and comes in .177 or .22.
Then there are multi pump air guns, and break barrel airguns. I can talk about the plusses and minuses of these types if anyone wants me to.
Jon in Keaau/HPP
RE: Best Air Rifle? - MarkP - 06-30-2017
I killed a rooster with a Crosman 2100 once many years ago that was about 5 yards up in a tree. I hit it right where the spine joins the skull and it dropped like a sack of wet cement. It quivered some but that was it.
RE: Best Air Rifle? - birdmove - 06-30-2017
The 2100B is still being made by Crosman, and has a metal breech. They recently introduced a version called the Legacy, which has gone to a plastic (ick!!) breech. There has been a progression to turn models that were metal and wood, into all plastic. I still have my Remington Airmaster 77 which I bought like 10 years ago, and it has a metal receiver. They dropped it for a few years, and now it's back....all plastic. The Remington IS a 2100 with different goodies on the outside. If anyone want the metal 2100, better buy it soon.
The 2100/oler Remington Airmasters, are nice accurate multi pump pneumatics. Benjamin, now owned by Crosman, still makes the very nice models 392 and 397, which are all brass, steel and wood. When the drop those sweet old designs, I thin k I'll switch to archery.
Jon in Keaau/HPP
RE: Best Air Rifle? - MarkD - 06-30-2017
Thanks for the comments. I kill them at night from their roost spots, when they are somewhat disoriented. (Not complete dark, either late dusk or full moon.) Knock them out of the tree with a long stick and then run them down and dispatch them. You can rarely if ever run one down in the day (unless you corner it)
Even at night they can get away, and this is where the air rifle comes in; if you shoot and wound them you can usually catch them. (They are fairly easy to shoot at night because they will not run that far, being disorientated. And if they are too high in the tree to use a stick the air rifle is needed again. They tend to come down if shot.)
Again, thx for info. If an animal right person wanders onto this thread and makes issue, I will transfer the topic to a new thread. I surmise you folks don't want a big discussion here on the ethics of killing feral chickens.
RE: Best Air Rifle? - birdmove - 06-30-2017
We have a chicken coop for our egg layers. Rats go in there at night to eat the chicken food. I find that, after dark, I can go out there and open the door to that coop and leave it open. The chickens are asleep on a roosting bar, and are in no danger of running out that door. This allows me to sit in a lawn chair, and try to bag a few rats. That's why I like quiet. Both my neighbors know I shoot rats at night, and are all for it. I have solid plywood walls there that go up from the base 2x6's two feet. I only take shots that, if I should miss, the pellet will go into the plywood or 2x6's, and with the airguns I use, no way would they shoot a pellet through that wood.
With rat lung and other diseases, I believe the only good rat is a dead rat.
Jon in Keaau/HPP