+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians (/showthread.php?tid=18340)
RE: Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians - kalakoa - 04-23-2019
discrimination is in implying all "native Hawaiians" consider Mauna Kea sacred
Discrimination is the belief that only certain races/religions can claim something to be "sacred".
I consider the pursuit of scientific knowledge to be sacred. Does that make me a haole?
RE: Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians - MarkD - 04-23-2019
TIME FOR A LITTLE SOAPBOXING
The word "discrimination" is a good word and unfortunately has been misappropriated by people with grievance agendas.
Here is the original, dominant meaning: "recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another."
As in to discern differences. As people discriminate between gay and straight people. Or white, black and asian people, in some respects.
Unfortunately this definition has taken root: "the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex." There's many better terms for this, such as adverse treatment, bias, disparate treatment, and bigotry.
This misappropriation of discrimination deprives us of an important word to explain why situations that appear biased (unfairly prejudiced) on their surface are not in fact biased.
Example: We sometimes give preferential treatment to blacks and whites in college applications relative to asians, because if we discriminate between the 3 groups, we see that asians' collective academic output is clearly superior. Setting college admissions purely on academic output is biased (unfairly prejudiced) against whites and blacks.
Discrimination is an important observational act, helping us to understand the world and set policies accordingly.
RE: Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians - randomq - 04-23-2019
Like culture, language is alive and constantly evolving. Like the ocean, a person can stand against its waves, but never stop the tide.
RE: Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 04-23-2019
TomK -
I searched for more info on the group that submitted the 19 page document to the UN. On their website is an article or statement summary by Emilee Martichenko. I don't believe she is from Hawaii as in her second sentence she makes the claim that Mauna Kea is covered with a "perpetual blanket of snow."
Towering above the landscape of the island of Hawaii is the breathtaking Mauna Kea. With a perpetual blanket of snow crowning its peak this mountain rises 13,796 ft (4,205 m) above sea level achieving the title of tallest mountain in the Pacific.
https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/indigenous-peoples-hawaii-request-urgent-action-committee-elimination-racial-discrimination
If she can't even be bothered with viewing snowless Mauna Kea on one of the many summit web cams as a way to fact check her comment, it seems unlikely she and the people who wrote the 19 page report made certain all of the other information contained in their paper is researched and authenticated in some way. Perhaps if this group in Cambridge, MA is committed to righting the wrongs for indigenous people around the world, they should first get to know some of the people they write about, and the lands in which they live.
RE: Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians - kalakoa - 04-23-2019
this group in Cambridge, MA
Out-of-state consultants telling us how to live ... check.
RE: Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians - geochem - 04-23-2019
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
If she can't even be bothered with viewing snowless Mauna Kea on one of the many summit web cams as a way to fact check her comment, it seems unlikely she and the people who wrote the 19 page report made certain all of the other information contained in their paper is researched and authenticated in some way.
Get with the times, HOTPE... don't you realize that we've entered the fact-free era? Appearances are all that matters - appearance IS reality....
RE: Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians - My 2 cents - 04-23-2019
Was she under oath when she said that?
RE: Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians - TomK - 04-23-2019
HOTPE - thanks for adding a link - the story I read was from Big Island Video News and I forgot to include the URL. I've edited the post to include it.
RE: Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians - TomK - 04-24-2019
And more:
"VIDEO: DLNR Chair Gives Pohakuloa, Mauna Kea, TMT Update"
"Kahele then turned to the Mauna Kea master lease, currently held by the University of Hawai#699;i, which expires expires on December 31, 2033. Kahele asked Case for her thoughts on a concept for Mauna Kea “where the state of Hawaii issues a master lease for the summit of Mauna Kea, with a certain allocated fixed rent, and then it’s up to the lessee – which would be the University of Hawai#699;i – to then sublease portions of Mauna Kea to various telescope entities to meet the master lease values to fund the Land Division rather than master leasing it for a dollar, we could master lease for right $5 million, right? $10 million.”"
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/04/24/video-dlnr-chair-gives-pohakuloa-mauna-kea-tmt-update/
I explained the MK observatories' rent situation many times on PW. Each observatory pays rent via 15% observing time at the telecopes for the University of Hawaii; the observatories provide several million dollars a year of their money to provide this access. This enables the university to carry out a strong astronomy and physics program with access to the telescopes for students. It's been well known for a long time that the best education for university students comes from staff still actively carrying out research and are therefore aware of the latest results in astronomy and physics and can pass that onto their students as well as having those students involved in the research thereby attracting even more STEM-related students.
Switching this rent to a simple fee will not only make astronomy more expensive for the observatories, it will likely force some to close. Not only that, it will reduce the accessibility of the UH to the telescopes and have a detrimental effect on both research and STEM education in Hawaii. It's a typical politician's short-term view of looking for more tax money and ignoring the potentially catastrophic mid and long-term effects it will have on the state.
RE: Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians - leilanidude - 04-24-2019
TomK - you need to get that information on the lease payments, to Kahele and other representatives, who probably do not understand it.