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+--- Thread: Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045 (/showthread.php?tid=23367)
RE: Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045 - ironyak - 06-26-2024
kalianna - Iʻm very glad that youʻre back, Ironyak.
Thank you, that's very kind. I actually peruse PW somewhat regularly to do a vibe check, as the kids might say, to see what the old punatics are going on about now. I generally don't have the time, energy, or your ample patience, to engage with the nonsense, and as most of the topics are of little consequence, I tend to just shake my head and move on. But this topic is different so figured it's worth trying to put some flags in the ground regarding the facts of the matter and push back on the worst of the absurdities. Speaking of which...
Punatang - Get yourself an "I Love Punatang" T-shirt...
I'll only accept a t-shirt that is exclusively locally produced from fiber-to-finish, that you can deliver in your exclusively carbon-free mode of transport, which you of course know exists, right? Otherwise you'd just be making impossible demands of youths in an attempt to discredit the validity and sincerity of their beliefs in order to undermine their scientifically-supported demands for change. And you wouldn't want to do that, right?
Punatang - I bet your two are sharp as tacks.
While my kids do well academically, in talking with them and their peers, I'm actually more struck by their deep sense of empathy. As a cohort, they tend to be very attuned to social issues, and sensitive to concerns around fairness and inclusion. Like HiloJulie noted, it probably helps that they're not addled by lead poisoning from the long-term exposure to leaded gas and discussions with them stand in stark contrast to conversations like these here with older generations. It's a grim irony that health damages caused by oil industry has made some more willing to both believe and regurgitate Big Oil propaganda.
Punatang - Is switching our power generation from oil to LNG, for a day or longer, going to retard climate change. Yes or no.
Actually, largely no. LNG, aka liquefied natural gas, aka methane, is itself a potent greenhouse gas, 80x stronger than CO2 in trapping heat over 20 years. While burning it produces ~25% less CO2 than bunker fuels, methane tends to leak in the process, a problem known as "methane slip". When you take into account this climate impacts from this leaked methane, along with the leaks that occur during the extraction and transport of methane, it can be worse than bunker fuels, and perhaps even coal, in negatively impacting the climate.
Punatang - why would Gov Green ... have taken the stance he has?
One good-faith interpretation is that he honesty wants to consider the options and is looking for whatever up to data is available. We'll see sometime after mid-July what that assessment looks like, but the math on emissions and per-watt cost is against LNG when compared to renewables.
One interesting tin-foil hat interpretation is that he is intentionally inviting future lawsuits so that the state is bound by enforceable decrees to move away from fossil fuels. It's a bit "4D chess", but politicians are adept at displacing blame for controversial decisions (it wasn't me, it was the wo/man in the black robes!)
Regardless, if the old hands at HECO can't figure out this rapid transition, maybe the PUC should break them up and allow small upstart coops to take the lead. The Kauai Utility Coop has achieved ~60% renewable energy already and are looking at being 100% renewables in less than 10 years.
HiloJulie - So, where do I go “spray” my orange died corn dust in protest? At the insurance company office? Hilo airport? Honolulu airport? Her Primary Care Doctor’s office? Each specialist doctor’s office?
Any of these? All? Wherever it takes to make a difference? There would probably be plenty support for a mass protest against forcing thousands of patients to fly constantly for medical care so have it & keep us in the loop as to where/when to show up. Bill McKibben, co-founder of 350.org, is in his sixties and still organizing and protesting. His Third Act organization, a community of Americans over sixty determined to change the world for the better, is doing some good work, IMHO.
In addition you could reach out to your representatives and advocate that their climate change proposals include a carbon tax so those flights aren't cheaper than local staffing for the healthcare industry. And/or you could recognize that you may have used a fair portion of your allotment of highly-polluting energy and curtail or eschew future unnecessary flights. Lots of things can be done to make a difference if you wish to.
RE: Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045 - Punatang - 06-26-2024
And you wouldn't want to do that, right?
LOL, no I would not and I did not.
RE: Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045 - HiloJulie - 06-27-2024
(06-26-2024, 06:35 PM)ironyak Wrote: In addition you could reach out to your representatives and advocate that their climate change proposals include a carbon tax so those flights aren't cheaper than local staffing for the healthcare industry. And/or you could recognize that you may have used a fair portion of your allotment of highly-polluting energy and curtail or eschew future unnecessary flights. Lots of things can be done to make a difference if you wish to.
You seem quite adept at telling EVERYONE else specifically what THEY should do, and yet, I find you to be very nonspecific as to what it is YOU have done.
I wrote the CEO's of both the insurance company and the medical center about not only the unnecessary cost the insurance company paid but the carbon footprint needlessly wasted. Granted, however, the 3 flights we took for medical appointments would have flown regardless of us being or not being on them, but I have been proactive and responsive to this excess waste by at least bringing it to the CEO's of both entities involved.
However, I am sure that they are entirely way too busy to see my letters, as they are out and about earning their 7-digit salaries, but I am sure, somehow, there is a bonus trigger by the volume of flights purchased from Hawaiian Airlines to transport a medical patient and her authorized escort.
Nonetheless, I'd love to hear your SPECIFIC contributions to lessening or eliminating YOUR carbon footprint, instead of a diatribe of what everyone else should do.
RE: Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045 - kalakoa - 06-27-2024
I reduced my carbon footprint by leaving Hawaii.
My new house is walking distance from downtown. I hardly drive anymore.
RE: Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045 - Punatang - 06-27-2024
HJ, it always seems like the loudest voices, including the one you just rebutted and the one you have quoted there on the bottom of your posts, create the most CO2 and buy multiple, huge homes right next to the oceans that we know are rapidly rising. At least our betters are distracting the kids with fear and settled science (oxymoron) so that they don't focus on the massive debt we are saddling them with. If they wake up to that, it's pitchforks.
RE: Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045 - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 06-27-2024
create the most CO2
We can always find someone else who will create more CO2 than I/we do. One of the provisions in the Hawaii settlement is that the entire state transportation system will reduce emissions by design.
In the meantime, do you really need to get in your 3000 pound car and buy that 3 pound _______?
During COVID I had reduced my driving to once every six weeks. My garden provided all of the fresh vegetables I needed, I baked fresh bread. I walked along the ocean a few miles a day, trade winds keeping the virus away. I never felt deprived of anything.
RE: Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045 - HiloJulie - 06-27-2024
(06-27-2024, 05:41 PM)Punatang Wrote: HJ, it always seems like the loudest voices, including the one you just rebutted and the one you have quoted there on the bottom of your posts, create the most CO2 and buy multiple, huge homes right next to the oceans that we know are rapidly rising. At least our betters are distracting the kids with fear and settled science (oxymoron) so that they don't focus on the massive debt we are saddling them with. If they wake up to that, it's pitchforks.
I can’t agree more.
As for the poster I rebutted, I can’t say for certain what their personal direct contribution to lowering their carbon footprint is, as all I’ve seen them post is dissertations as to what everyone else should do.
As for the person I quoted at the end of my posts, while he is no walking advertisement for carbon footprint lowering, he is one of the few with power who at least has shown that climate change is real, and during his tenure, did something about it instead of screaming that climate change is a hoax, a Chinese conspiracy, telling the oil industry execs to give him a billion dollars and he would give them huge tax cuts and although the other still flys private, at least he does not have his own carbon billowing 757 with his name emblazoned on it with gold plated toilets. (with his name emblazoned on them as well)
RE: Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045 - ironyak - 06-27-2024
HiloJulie - You seem quite adept at telling EVERYONE else specifically what THEY should do, and yet, I find you to be very nonspecific as to what it is YOU have done.
I already did this here, but can rehash for those slow on the uptake. If you have any questions about choosing to have fewer kids, or limiting driving to once a week or less, or not flying to the mainland for 5+ years, or choosing local fruits & veggies & limiting meat consumption (especially beef) or using off-grid solar, or buying used like clothes by the pound at Redemption, or washing clothes and hanging them on the line during sunny days like today, or tending goats & gardens, or repurposing & recycling, I'd be happy to discuss further.
All that said, I recognize that I have a background and skill set that allows me to live a particularly low-carbon lifestyle in Puna, with features that may not be possible for everyone. However, anyone can limit their number of kids, reduce unnecessary travel, eat less meat, contact their representatives to push for removing fossil-fuels from the electrical and transportation system, and support actions to address climate change like the youth advocates winning their decarbonization lawsuit, if they want to.
HiloJulie - I wrote the CEO's of both the insurance company and the medical center about not only the unnecessary cost the insurance company paid but the carbon footprint needlessly wasted.
Letter writing is a great first step. If it doesn't accomplish your goals, hopefully you'll keep trying additional tactics. Please let us how it goes and how to help.
kalakoa - I reduced my carbon footprint by leaving Hawaii. My new house is walking distance from downtown. I hardly drive anymore.
Oh no, it sounds like you've fallen into the trap of a 15-minute city! Do we need to send in the lifted-trucks to roll coal and sneak you out under the smog to preserve your freedoms? ;) More seriously, it makes sense to live as near as possible to where you want to be, so it doesn't require lots of energy to travel. I sincerely hope you're happy where you've landed kalakoa.
Punatang - At least our betters are scarring and distracting the kids with fear and settled science (oxymoron) so that they don't focus on the massive debt we are saddling them with. If they wake up to that, it's pitchforks.
Um, the pitchforks & guillotines are constantly discussed actually, and it's not just in regards to monetary theory. As I said, you should be glad that as a group the youth are pretty empathetic, but they do have their limits. You've heard of inter-generational justice right?
So Punatang, you've asked for a lot of info and I think have been given it. I'd be interested in your reply to your own question - "Is switching our power generation from oil to LNG, for a day or longer, going to retard climate change. Yes or no. please =)"
RE: Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045 - Punatang - 06-27-2024
Thank you for that colorful whataboutism HJ LOL.
RE: Hawaii Decarbonization Settlement 2045 - ironyak - 06-27-2024
HOTPE - During COVID I had reduced my driving to once every six weeks. My garden provided all of the fresh vegetables I needed, I baked fresh bread. I walked along the ocean a few miles a day, trade winds keeping the virus away. I never felt deprived of anything.
Just a quick reply to say hi! Many of us thought that the break from business-as-usual may open up people to alternatives, but Normalcy Bias really has a strangle hold on the collective psyche, even as it degrades everyone's way of life, creates greater inequalities, and breaks down around us. I hope you're doing well out there on there on the edge! May we all find such simple contentments.