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+--- Thread: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July (/showthread.php?tid=21045)
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RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Kaimana - 07-31-2019
Tom- sorry I didn't know where to ask this so I'm just going to ask in this thread. Do you know anything about the Hoku Kea telescope? I read in the West Hawaii today that it was never used because of numerous flaws(warped mirror, leaky roof etc.). But then in other things online it makes it seem as though it was operational. Just wondering if you had any info on that?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - reni - 07-31-2019
Posted , Mark P
"In the "good old days" indigenous people were fed a line of bull and generally shafted. Today the pendulum has swung past center and completely in keeping with human nature, the bull is flying in the other direction. I hope some day the pendulum settles down in the middle"
I agree .....I too would love to see the pendulum settle in the middle. I doubt that it will happen.
I think Harry thought he could show up, talk story local boy style and win people over. Those days are gone , the younger generations are not impressed w/ that rhetoric.
And when one considers the broader picture of Politics..... Hawaii is a Democratic State. definitely Leaning towards the left when we acknowledge what our Representatives are saying within our country.
What a hot potato for the politicians. How can they come home to their own State and not support the rights of their own indigenous people over the TMT ?
Now, we even have the U. of H. spokesman agreeing it's time for a pause.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 07-31-2019
Kaimana - yes, I can answer your question. The UH Educational Telescope used to be a 24-inch telescope and dome on the mountain run by the university to train students. Around 2008 the telescope was replaced by a 36-inch telescope and dome (Hoku Kea), but the telescope was manufactured incorrectly and wasn't able to be fixed. It is now due to be removed from the mountain although I'm not certain when. There is a new 0.7-meter telescope and dome which is currently sitting in Hilo while a new permanent site is found (not on Mauna Kea).
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Kaimana - 07-31-2019
quote:
Originally posted by TomK
Kaimana - yes, I can answer your question. The UH Educational Telescope used to be a 24-inch telescope and dome on the mountain run by the university to train students. Around 2008 the telescope was replaced by a 36-inch telescope and dome (Hoku Kea), but the telescope was manufactured incorrectly and wasn't able to be fixed. It is now due to be removed from the mountain although I'm not certain when. There is a new 0.7-meter telescope and dome which is currently sitting in Hilo while a new permanent site is found (not on Mauna Kea).
Mahalo. Also I can't remember the info you posted on why the Canary Islands is a worse place to put the TMT, I know you said the lower elevation would make it less usable, but I forgot the % you said and which spectrum it was effected at.
Mahalo again for the info, I try my best to not spread false information. While I disagree with the TMT being built here, I do not want to spread misinformation. I'm actually trying to reply to someone on facebook saying the TMT only wants to be here because it'll be higher than the ELT.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 07-31-2019
Thank you, Kaimana, and I completely understand your position. I am more than happy to have a dialogue with people who have a completely different opinion to me. This is exactly how I think things should be even if, in the end, we'll fail to agree or compromise. That is the way of the world and it doesn't mean opposing side need to be enemies, just understanding and respecting each other's point of view leads to good things.
It was my estimate that the TMT would lose about 30% of it's designed capability if it was built on La Palma and this was based on the wavelength regime it has been designed to work at as well as other factors which I could spend an hour talking about. The TMT is designed to work from around 0.3 microns (300-nanometres, 3000 Angstroms and I need to double-check that) up to around 25 microns, i.e., from what our eyes can see up to infrared wavelengths optical/IR telescopes can observe from the ground. At La Palma, it will lose the ability to work at thermal infrared wavelengths, which is 2.3 microns and above (longer wavelengths than the eye can detect, but fundamentally important for an awful lot of astrophysics). It won't lose that ability completely but it won't be able to compete with other observatories and that ability will be lost to the northern hemisphere. In summary, an awful lot of science it is designed to do will be lost.
PS. "[...]the TMT only wants to be here because it'll be higher than the ELT."
That's not the case at all. The ELT will have access to the southern sky only. The TMT will have access to the northern sky. The two will complement each other. Mauna Kea was chosen through a scientific process that ended up with Mauna Kea being chosen as the best site in the Northern Hemisphere. What wasn't considered, however, was the current blowback and I'm really pissed the TMT senior scientists aren't here to engage with the local population and leaving Maunakea Observatories to deal with the fallout.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Kaimana - 07-31-2019
What wasn't considered, however, was the current blowback
That's crazy to me considering every hearing that allowed public testimony was filled with opposition telling them how much they opposed it and that they were going to protest it.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 07-31-2019
"That's crazy to me considering every hearing that allowed public testimony was filled with opposition telling them how much they opposed it and that they were going to protest it."
What are you suggesting, the law is irrelevant because some people don't agree?
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-31-2019
The Rock
Jack Johnson
Jason Mamoa
You Hollywood boys wanna talk the talk at the Access Road?
Did you know the TMT contributes $1 million for STEM scholarships on Big Island? Anyone up there mention that?
So if you have a good reason the TMT shouldn’t be built here, don’t victimize the keiki, put YOUR money where your mouth is, and start writing replacement checks.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - reni - 08-01-2019
Jeez HOTPE, 3:42 am ????
You might want to google some of the fellows you are calling
"Hollywood boys".
I completely agree with you on the topic of successful wealthy people not only speaking out but monetarily investing in the communities they claim to support.
Jason has Hawaiian blood, on his dad's side.....pretty sure he lived a good deal of his childhood summers on Hakimo Road, Waianae coast.
Jack Johnson was born and raised in Hawaii.... He does put his money where his mouth is. He's an environmentalist . Jack & his wife started 2 charitable organizations, "Ohana Charitable Foundation" and "Kokua Hawaii Foundation" and has given his time freely to the keiki on the north shore on many occasions .
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 08-01-2019
Silence from the "elected" "leaders"...