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+--- Thread: Eight more TMT protesters arrested on Mauna Kea (/showthread.php?tid=16386)
RE: Eight more TMT protesters arrested on Mauna Kea - kalakoa - 09-11-2015
Right now we're not even capable of growing our own food
Ah, topic drift...
Not only don't we grow our own food, we also have no local manufacturing base. This works fine in a globalized economy where the fuel cost of shipping is subsidized by complicated tax treatment, but it will suddenly be a huge problem if these islands become isolated for any reason (price of gas, terrorists, war, climate change, global pandemic, etc).
That said, I'll go back to assuming it won't happen in my lifetime, so I don't have to care ("I got mine, screw you").
RE: Eight more TMT protesters arrested on Mauna Kea - PunaMauka2 - 09-11-2015
The problem with dakine's catatonic viewpoint is he chronically seeks to frame race as dictating behavior. It's the classic hallmark of a racist mindset. Hence, the pathetic fantasies of re-segregating all the world's people to be resettled in their proper ancestral homelands. ...despite the efforts of multinational corporations to wipe out racial purity.
RE: Eight more TMT protesters arrested on Mauna Kea - HiloPuna - 09-11-2015
dakine (and in similar ways, Gypsy) conflates his beliefs and concepts into a flawed perception of reality. He lacks an objectivity filter, for people like him the subjective is all....the "Protectors" share this fundamental immaturity as well.
On the bigger issue at hand, and from my perspective unfortunately, the likelihood of the State Supreme Court returning the matter to the BLNR for reconsideration seems to be very high. I state this based on wide readings but in particular a recent article on a local legal blog that focuses on property rights issues. When it comes to these land use issues, nationally and more especially in Hawaii, and to gain a seasoned lawyers perspective, read Inversecondemnation, one of my favorite blogs. Here is the article;
http://www.inversecondemnation.com/inversecondemnation/2015/08/where-no-man-has-gone-before-hawaii-supreme-court-considers-mauna-keas-30-meter-telescope.html
The bad news for all fair minded people on this subject is that the DLNR process was most likely legally flawed and when brought before the justices they had prior caselaw and precedent that they will most likely rely on. A brief perspective from the article;
"....Hawaii administrative law can be horribly opaque, and when presented an unusual process that requires the agency to shift between its executive and judicial functions, while trying to accommodate myriad "stakeholders," and trying to get it done on time and within a budget, agencies often take their best shot at getting it right. Sometimes, the process they settle on ends up somewhere in between a public hearing and an administrative trial, and therefore is subject to challenge. We really don't buy the Appellants' argument that the fix was in and the Board predetermined the result. There's no evidence of that. The contested case was, by all accounts, exhaustive. And, as the Harvard Journal linked to above noted, "the native Hawaiians’ [substantive] legal arguments are generally thin and unlikely to succeed on appeal."
So, brace yourselves for some short lived chest beating by the Ritte's, the Williamson Changs, and the "Protectors" who will (some purposefully) mistake the courts decision on the process with the merits of the opponents arguments. The court is not concerned with moral hazards, with the cost to the applicant (TMT), with the effect on the community at large, with the loss of faith in a state agency for getting the process wrong. No, they will pull the legal threads from the tapestry of our community interest and leave us wondering why we keep being let down by state agencies which cost us so much and deliver us so little*.
*that said, I would never trade our state government in the whole for anything the "Protectors", the sovereignty activists, or any other secessionists might propose. Their movement is intellectually and historically hollow and it's proponents are for the most part charlatans and/or malcontents.
RE: Eight more TMT protesters arrested on Mauna Kea - PaulW - 09-11-2015
dakine, the people of this world have never been so healthy or wealthy. This science that you hate so much has delivered untold blessings.
You just keep believing your delusions. Not just a racist but a doomer too.
RE: Eight more TMT protesters arrested on Mauna Kea - pbmaise - 09-11-2015
Some Hawaiians make out if they were only just left alone then all would be cool. Really, cool as in private island and plenty of fish in the sea, canoe, and little grass shack..or cool as in six figure salary, SUV, and private exclusive schools paid by giant trust fund?
Both routes are available.
No other "native" population has it so good and both ways.
My finger is pointed at Hawaiians. It is they that have fled their culture and not us that has taken it away.
I lived in Hawaii 6 full years before I heard an actual conversation between two Hawaiians in Hawaiian.
Why is that?
RE: Eight more TMT protesters arrested on Mauna Kea - kimo wires - 09-11-2015
Always want the Haoles to go back to wherevers. and to go back to the past.
Try go back to this Past
.“It will afford me unfeigned satisfaction if my kingdom can add its quota toward the successful accomplishment of the most important astronomical observation of the present century and assist, however humbly, the enlightened nations of the earth in these costly enterprises…” ~ King Kalakaua, September 1874
RE: Eight more TMT protesters arrested on Mauna Kea - Punatic007 - 09-11-2015
quote:
Originally posted by kimo wires
Always want the Haoles to go back to wherevers. and to go back to the past.
Try go back to this Past
.“It will afford me unfeigned satisfaction if my kingdom can add its quota toward the successful accomplishment of the most important astronomical observation of the present century and assist, however humbly, the enlightened nations of the earth in these costly enterprises…” ~ King Kalakaua, September 1874
Excellent quote! That's what I'm talking about!!!
RE: Eight more TMT protesters arrested on Mauna Kea - Kaimana - 09-11-2015
quote:
Originally posted by pbmaise
I lived in Hawaii 6 full years before I heard an actual conversation between two Hawaiians in Hawaiian.
Why is that?
Because it's not taught at all in public schools even though its an official language. You could argue that teaching only English was a way for America to indoctrinate Hawaiians.
“It will afford me unfeigned satisfaction if my kingdom can add its quota toward the successful accomplishment of the most important astronomical observation of the present century and assist, however humbly, the enlightened nations of the earth in these costly enterprises…” ~ King Kalakaua, September 1874
I would just like to point out that he did say HIS KINGDOM. I mean if he knew it would no longer be Hawaii/Hawaiians lands I don't think he would have said the same.
RE: Eight more TMT protesters arrested on Mauna Kea - TomK - 09-11-2015
dakine wrote:
"http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/heart-hawaiian-people-arguments-arguments-against-telescope-mauna-kea-180955057
Where you say:
"It seems to me that it's an argument about returning to the stone age versus understanding our universe..."
Which I think says a lot regarding your true feelings for the Hawaiian people. You should be ashamed of yourself brah! The fact that you aren't speaks volumes."
Oh for crying out loud, this again? This has already been discussed on PW, but obviously you missed it. My comment was about a specific post on the Big Island Chronicle by Jim Albertini who ended his post about taking action about military and industrial drunks. How that refers to the TMT on Mauna Kea is, well, something only you and Gypsy could possibly come up with an explanation for, so please try.
The article is here:
http://www.bigislandchronicle.com/2011/08/17/letters-%E2%80%94-regarding-mauna-kea/
I don't suppose you see some of your own hyperbole there, do you?
RE: Eight more TMT protesters arrested on Mauna Kea - TomK - 09-11-2015
dakine,
"Keep in mind, while you all bitch about the Hawaiians complaining about development, about loss of land, and poor management practices of government agencies, the world is going south quick. In other words there's plenty of evidence that the ways you all so strongly support are predicated on systems that don't work. That are in their essence broken. There is very little in your mass commercialization that does work."
It's scientists around the world, including those on Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa, that have been saying that climate change is now one of the world's greatest problems. I know of no astronomer or research scientist that believes that mass commercialization is a solution. But for whatever deluded reason you have, you apply your argument to race. It's a crazy argument and somehow the TMT has become a target.
Maybe you might consider this is the time to stop your straw man arguments.