+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July (/showthread.php?tid=21045)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Frank - 08-24-2019
SBH...How do we go forward, what happens next?
This may do it going forward...
6. Prepare an independent and detailed analysis of two scenarios: what Hawaii gains and loses with and without TMT. Ensure that the analysis goes out quickly and broadly on social media.
Above taken from this link - https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/08/brainstorming-beyond-the-mauna-kea-standoff/
Decommissioning is a biggie in this list of 35 ideas
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 08-24-2019
Unbelievable they didn't see this coming when they announced the start date five days in advance.
Very generous to assume this entire "dramatic interlude" wasn't intentionally staged as a way to squeeze a little more money out of TMT.
what Hawaii gains and loses with and without TMT
If TMT is forced to leave, there will be no more investment in Hawaii -- which might actually be a positive change, if the size of our government is trimmed to match.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - Frank - 08-24-2019
kalakoa... a positive change, if the size of our government is trimmed to match.
I suggest our government Needs to be Trimmed no matter the outcome of TMT
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 08-24-2019
True -- but failure of TMT should provide plenty of extra leverage -- I'm thinking multiple lawsuits, termination of public officials for cause, and probably some financial pressure due to lack of tax revenue.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - reni - 08-24-2019
Kalakoa,
" but failure of TMT should provide plenty of extra leverage -- I'm thinking multiple lawsuits, termination of public officials for cause, and probably some financial pressure due to lack of tax revenue."
Do you really? terminate for cause? I think those good ol' days are gone.
I would imagine the TMT consortium would keep their money and move on if prospects looked better elsewhere. If not, there is a small chance they could sue .
I would be surprised if any member of the existing telescope community would sue the U. of H., (their landlord). as their relationship appears to be quite symbiotic. but again maybe?
So that leaves the "State".....yes, they are VERY good at placing blame in each other's departments and Suing each other's dept. , well yes! They know we taxpayers cover that cr**.
.But I seriously doubt any Public official would loose his/her position.
I'm posting this link again. If you haven't taken the time to read it,
please consider doing so.
- https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/08/brainstorming-beyond-the-mauna-kea-standoff/
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - rainyjim - 08-24-2019
Wow it’s like a never ending episode of the twilight zone.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - MarkP - 08-24-2019
Summing up the pros and cons of the TMT is only part of it. There are also the pros and cons of the rule of law to be considered. For me it is a simple calculation.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 08-24-2019
pros and cons of the TMT is only part of it. There are also the pros and cons of the rule of law to be considered.
Another consideration is truth & lies.
Do you want to align yourself with, support, and encourage any group that depends on disinformation, false accusations, and unsupported statements to gain followers and increase donations for their cause? Why not state simple facts and the truth? One has to question why it’s necessary to cloud the issue if their purpose was straightforward, direct and clear.
For instance, “yes the TMT is non polluting, but we still don’t want it on the mountain. Here’s why...”
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - kalakoa - 08-24-2019
the pros and cons of the rule of law
Failing the rule of law should create plenty of legal liability.
Especially with millions of public dollars being spent to not defend the rule of law. Fiscally irresponsible, at the very least. (Watch them try to raise taxes to pay for it.)
TMT is due a full refund of all the fees they paid to reach this point, even if they don't seek damages.
Of course most potential paintiffs will wimp out due to fear of retaliation -- which is ironic, because that kind of retaliation is a clear violation of the rule of law.
The owners of that "Kingdom Lot" in downtown Hilo just won a free precedent. I can hardly wait to see the courts explain how their place of refuge is completely different than the much larger one on Mauna Kea.
Is that new road to the VIS cheaper yet?
I'm posting this link again.
I've read it. Good ideas, but irrelevant unless and until the protestors are willing to negotiate. They had better be willing to spend the winter up there.
RE: TMT construction begins Monday 15 July - TomK - 08-24-2019
From big Island video News:
https://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/08/24/video-reaction-to-mayor-kims-mauna-kea-meetings/
Kahuna said:
"We’ve heard the chirping and the rumors about Mayor Harry Kim trying to bring certain Hawaiian leaders of the Hawaiian community to the table to have some kinds of discussion. We’re not privy to any of the information in there because none of us on the Mauna are any of the individuals who have been included on that list. Who, exactly, he’s bringing in, we’re not exactly sure. And what exactly he hopes to achieve, I’m not sure either. Because if he hopes to achieve anything even remotely connected to TMT, I think it’s been made clear that that’s gonna have to go through the kia#699;i on the Mauna."
And then said:
"And our thing is stopping TMT. No meeting, no conversation that he has is gonna change our mind. Whether he talks to us, whether he talks to other leaders of the community. We are set. We are committed. And we are not going anywhere until we know that TMT is not a threat to Mauna Kea."
Can anyone explain this logic? Not defending Kim, but it seems he's trying to talk to native Hawaiian leaders who are willing to listen and compromise.