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+--- Thread: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! (/showthread.php?tid=16006)
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RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - kimo wires - 11-22-2015
Once again. I don't know who to believe. ?^
"What about Na'i Aupuni makes federal recognition seem predetermined?"
That seemed to be the gist of the article. Quote
"There are no election rules. There is no accountability to the Hawaiian people for this funding. There is no information on how the decision regarding this critical process was decided. It is entirely plausible it was decided by a single individual with a long history of advocacy for federal recognition.'
Of course this article has been proven to be a lie..if you catch the sarcasm.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - kimo wires - 11-22-2015
If that is all indeed true ^ it seems like a pretty raw deal for the majority of Hawaiians.
And benefits only a few that have positioned themselves right.
I envisioned someplace like Cherokee N.C. (without the gambling)
A beautiful piece of the country for Native Hawaiians. Not Kahoolawe.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - ironyak - 11-22-2015
"It is entirely plausible it was decided by a single individual with a long history of advocacy for federal recognition."
Entirely plausible, huh? Pretty overwhelming evidence.
The Ka Lahui Hawai'i statement is oddly contradictory. It both celebrates its signing up of 22,000 citizens (since 1987?) and criticizes Kanaiolowalu for only signing up 19,000 (in two years). It both claims that "no 'consultation' has been held specifically for Hawaiians in and throughout Hawaii" but emphasizes the verbal testimony of opposition given at the DOI meetings held through the islands. It notes that the DOI proposed rule does not transfer any lands, but then implies that means that lands could never be transferred.
In general, there are two camps at odds over federal recognition (being offered) versus an international recognition (being attempted). The boycotting of Na'i Aupuni is one way to prevent any process that may lead to federal recognition. IMHO it would seem more meaningful to utilize the convention to gather momentum for whatever path forward has the widest support, but the trend of criticism without alternatives and non-participation in any state or federally funded solution may be the more common choice.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 11-22-2015
IMHO it would seem more meaningful to utilize the convention to gather momentum for whatever path forward has the widest support
I hope ... all the other organizations ... realize the need to work with the entire community to reach for whatever solution they wish to achieve, now. ...(otherwise) without a solution in place this opportunity could slip away.
So let me see if I understand correctly:
Na'i Aupuni Election - All parties should attempt to compromise and move forward as it's in their best interest, even if they feel there are major flaws in the election process which they find almost impossible to accept
TMT - There is no reason to compromise and move forward, etc etc etc, even though the protest is not about the telescope. And it's fine if this opportunity slips away.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - kimo wires - 11-22-2015
Good points Iornyack.
I agree that when one is trying to make their case that maybe they shouldn’t use the word plausible in a critical sentence.
Still I think its an honest attempt and well thought out opinion. And in the comment section she has lots of positive support.
Smoke and Mirrors
The big problem is that there is no consensus among all Hawaiians about what Federal recognition should include.(If that is all that is being offered)
And I think part of that is in the complicated language being used to persuade some people.
These organizations should be explaining themselves in language that is straight forward and easy to understand.
Until there is a legitimate vote where everyone is included the outcome is going to be skewed and won’t represent what the majority wants.
IMO there should be at least a majority of the vote ,over 50%, of the eligible voters participating or it's invalid .
The Media isn’t helping the situation with all the sensationalism stories covering the TMT.
Seems to me that all this anti-TMT protesting is taking the focus away from the bigger, more important issue at hand.
Protecters should be protecting their future interests now before they miss the boat.
I wonder how aware they are that their real interests might be decided at this moment?
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - TomK - 11-22-2015
Pahoated wrote:
"The author of this opinion piece has resorted to outright lying. [...]"
Still waiting for you to identify the source of "infrared noise" at Mauna Kea's peak. You weren't resorting to outright lying by any chance? Please reassure everyone that isn't the case.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - kalakoa - 11-23-2015
federal recognition (being offered) versus an international recognition (being attempted)
The US Government will probably ignore any "international recognition" (as they are wont to do), whereas Federal recognition might actually include some restoration of rights and lands.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - Obie - 11-23-2015
Why should the telescope operators kiss up to the protesters when the protesters avowed goal is to have them removed from the mountain ?
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - PunaMauka2 - 11-23-2015
In other words, according to dakine, know your place and start groveling and pandering to the ethnic elite ...or else.
RE: TMT Work to Resume Says Ige! - pahoated - 11-23-2015
quote:You know, at first, I thought, cool, an astronomer that lives in Puna. Now, you come across as an a-hole, and a strangely ignorant one at that, only questions and personal below the belt mindset. It's weird, you don't know basic facts, demand I provide the proof, then go on to further insulting before demanding something else. You seem to be completely out of it as far as what is going on with the other observatories.
Originally posted by TomK
Pahoated wrote:
"The author of this opinion piece has resorted to outright lying. [...]"
Still waiting for you to identify the source of "infrared noise" at Mauna Kea's peak. You weren't resorting to outright lying by any chance? Please reassure everyone that isn't the case.
The infrared noise at the summit of Mauna Kea is the sun heating the rocks during the day, doh! As for the upgrades, they are related to that.
At less-advanced stages are
projects to upgrade the detectors in two of the infrared instruments (UCLA IR Lab)
http://nexsci.caltech.edu/conferences/2007/KeckSci/Keck5YrPlan11-07-2005.pdf
2.5.3 Specific High-priority Programs
2.5.3.1 Five-year timeframe
Near IR wide-field imaging/multi-object spectroscopic capabilities (MOSFIRE)
"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"