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+--- Thread: road fee's plus tax (/showthread.php?tid=11500)
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road fee's plus tax - Gravelroad - 02-24-2013
I am here to learn, why do we have to maintain our own roads yet pay the same tax. What really are the rules about collecting road fee's. Why am I told most residents are apossed to public roads. It is not a gated commuity if there is no GATE. Is there a plan to make any roads public in our sub-divisions on our scheadule or at all. The PCDP is talking about flooding and a lot of other items, I am not sure if the access issue is on the agenda. Any help on my lack of history. Please feel free to spell check as needed, that class is next (again)
RE: road fee's plus tax - Rob Tucker - 02-24-2013
The reason your road maintenance is not supported by fuel tax revenues is because the County of Hawaii violated it's own ordinances in approving the subdivisions back in the late 1950's. This violation of county ordinances was intentional. The county was effectively creating a "tax mine" where they could collect property taxes from off island land owners and not have to provide services. That worked for them quite a while but obviously a lot of people have now moved into these areas.
Anyway, that is the short version.
RE: road fee's plus tax - Gravelroad - 02-24-2013
Thank you for the short version, now I know how we got here. Do you have any insight to the "what is next". Has the PCDP addressed a exit stegity for the mistake in the 50's or as the "D" indicates a plan forward to get us on track? I read about a lot of issues but have not seen anything on the basic Development of our infistructor. Not asking what we are not going to do (sewer system for Puna) but what is planned? USPS (3 years to get a box), emergency services (fire house), schools, evacuation plans, alternate routes when the highway is blocked. The legal side of liability for roads, collecting the road fee's based on the situation we find ourselves in now.
RE: road fee's plus tax - Rob Tucker - 02-24-2013
A group I am involved in, Friends of Puna's Future (www.fopf.org), has been working on this for the past three years. The PCDP has done nothing on the subject. At this moment two things are taking place.
1. Our newly elected state Senator Ruderman has submitted a bill to the Senate (SB382) to clarify the ability of the county to use Fuel Tax Revenue (FTR) on private road systems which are open to public use. The intention is to have the county operate a grant-in-aid program to move fuel tax money to the private subdivisions. Lots of reasons this may not happen. Hilo has enjoyed fifty years of skimming the tax base and is not thrilled to give that up. Another is the unions, famously corrupt, won't like seeing private sector doing work cheaper than they can.
2. A filing or appeal to the Federal government in the form of a Federal Civil Rights Complaint is being prepared. If #1 brings no results than we'll see if the county wants to brush up on their federalese.
RE: road fee's plus tax - kalakoa - 02-24-2013
Fine point: whether road fees are "mandatory" varies per subdivision, and payment of said fees does not in any way guarantee any pavement and/or maintenance.
There is a process by which County may be petitioned to take ownership of a road, but they won't consider it until/unless the road meets all their standards (easement width, pavement type/area, stripes, etc). Most subdivision CC&Rs have language about the roads eventually becoming "public".
RE: road fee's plus tax - Gravelroad - 02-24-2013
Outstanding link Sir, Thank you for the direction. I knew their had to be someone out there working on this.
My subdivision did win a 1991 case that allows us to leagally collect road fees, there is just not much help out there to enforce the ruling. We have thousands of dollars in the rears owed. We have just recently (past few years) actually started using all funds on ligitimete work on roads, that have been neglected for far to long. What is the CC&R? I am sure we will see more of each other on this.
Mahalo Again for the direction the Freinds of Puna site was a nice spot in my day.
RE: road fee's plus tax - rainshadow - 02-26-2013
Very cool, Rob, thanks for sharing that.
That's good focus.
-- rainshadow
RE: road fee's plus tax - Rob Tucker - 02-26-2013
quote:
Originally posted by Gravelroad
Outstanding link Sir, Thank you for the direction. I knew their had to be someone out there working on this.
Well, for fifty years there was nobody. Just an accumulating conventional wisdom that nothing could be done. I would advise all punatics to pay attention, get involved and be patient and doggedly persistent. There are political forces here which want to keep Puna poor, pregnant and barefoot.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
RE: road fee's plus tax - Hapahaole - 06-19-2014
Not so prejudiced commentaries here
Only Hawaiian acres was incorporated before statehood 1958. Not 1960's as was
Hpp orchidland FA Ainaloa Sidney Fuke or any other.
Only HA has all 4009 landowners precedence over the boards
Only HA got surrounded and needs no connector roads
Only fopf was allowed participation out of 20000 NGOs
Careful what you ask for . HA who pays it's own roads charged by two peoples eminent domain and who lost in court .
Now Orchidland FA Hpp copies these reports but refuses to pay back any money to HA who pays for 250,000 commercial tourist traffic
The lawsuit filed and won" states failure of Moho road must be repaid and closed" 1996 mayor KIM and BOC . inaccurate information here . No connectors s or meetings allowed by military dictatorship in HA and did vote to be gated . Planning and Fuke were sued and lost In court . The violations of albizia and no code road have cost them 4009 landowners loss of millions for no roads . Helco is planning dept . Since violating the agreement and losing 300 million . The new subs like Orchidland Ainlaloa and Hpp have to pay their own roads . No emergency relief caused bob Jacobson doesn't feel like paying his dues . Ignoring a court ordered injunction is failure of board for landowners rights . They cost all roads over cheapness not paying their fees; bath to . Lost emergency relief will cost billions county won't pay . and HA requires no roads for new subdivisions .
hapahaole
RE: road fee's plus tax - kalakoa - 06-19-2014
Warning: only vaguely on-topic.
http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/23287/two-senators-one-of-whom-is-a-republican-propose-a-12-cent-gas-tax-increase/
Currently 18.4c/gal, set in the 90s when gas was $1.25/gal; not adjusted for inflation since then.
Just like the County FTR. Not that raising it would cause pavement outside Hilo or Kona.