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+--- Thread: helicopter flight paths. (/showthread.php?tid=11861)
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helicopter flight paths. - sputnut - 05-06-2013
Where do they usually fly over? I saw a post about this a while back, but I'm looking for more specifics, I guess. Is HPP affected? How about pahoa? Seems the direct path between airport and volcano misses those areas. Or do they fly over other areas and older flows as well?
comin' your way soon!
RE: helicopter flight paths. - kalakoa - 05-06-2013
Helicopters fly wherever they want at whatever altitude their pilots feel is best.
Because the helicopters "bring money", they're allowed to ignore rules/regulations.
If you're closer to the highway, you get more tourist flyover.
If you're deeper into the jungle, you get more green harvest.
RE: helicopter flight paths. - Carey - 05-06-2013
The problem with establishing a "usual" flight path is that the lower Puna destination moves...and so does the flight path....as the lava flow changes. Starting at Hilo Airport they head South/southeast through kinda paralleling Railroad Rd in Hilo.... towards Keaau town is where the paths may diverge more....if there is more active flow near the water entry & that is closer to Kaimu, the birds will be heading more along Railroad, through mid-HPP & through Pahoa out to the water entry....if the flow has moved over towards the NP boundary, the birds will head more south, crossing over Keaau & heading more towards mid Ainaloa....If the activity is at Pu`uO`o or a breakout a little south of there, the flights will veer off of Railroad a little higher & more follow 11 & over Mid Hawaiian Acres...
It has not happened since I have lived here & I am not sure there was a helicopter force when it last happened, but I image that is the activity were to travel east down the East Rift, closer to Kapoho, the birds would fly more over lower HPP, HB/HP/HS/HSRE & Nanawale...
When we moved, It was during a time of very low activity (in fact, we chose AGAINST living in Hilo because of the airplane noise! boy were we in for a surprise)....a little over a year later, we realized what air traffic in Puna can be like...and the fact that Keaau seems to be on the flight path of all of the flows during the last few years! ARRRGGGHH!
It is also not as clear cut... during the filming of the Indiana Jones movie, there was no helicopter traffic overhead for a week or so...because there was filming on the Shipman property.... also during highly active lava flows, helicopters are brought in from other islands...and there is less concern for where to go (As the National Park is highly restricted, this has become an issue of note, esp. in the news... That is also the problem with the direct ruler route formulas, they are VERY restricted on where they can fly within the National Park)
Not all helicopters are bad, in fact over the years a couple of the companies have made it their kuleana to fly with respect to the landowners beneath. There is one that is no longer flying over the schools, is not flying in flight packs anymore, and has really become nothing more than light traffic noise here....And I know that in our neighborhood, that is noticed & appreciated...& I did hire them for some of the research work I had BECAUSE they respected our concerns a few years ago...
And then there are the Green Harvest, which flies low, in packs, and under no semblance of destination to the landowners...until a spot is found, then ALLL of the landowners near the grow are in the middle of a beehive of helicopter activity...for as long as it takes...
And search and rescue, which is the ONLY activity where I truly understand flying low & accept those few annoyances....and I do realize when there is a search here, we are lucky to have as many options... just wish they would all make it a part of their kuleana to respect the landowners...
RE: helicopter flight paths. - Guest - 05-06-2013
quote:
Originally posted by Carey
The problem with establishing a "usual" flight path is that the lower Puna destination moves...and so does the flight path....as the lava flow changes. Starting at Hilo Airport they head South/southeast through kinda paralleling Railroad Rd in Hilo.... towards Keaau town is where the paths may diverge more....if there is more active flow near the water entry & that is closer to Kaimu, the birds will be heading more along Railroad, through mid-HPP & through Pahoa out to the water entry....if the flow has moved over towards the NP boundary, the birds will head more south, crossing over Keaau & heading more towards mid Ainaloa....If the activity is at Pu`uO`o or a breakout a little south of there, the flights will veer off of Railroad a little higher & more follow 11 & over Mid Hawaiian Acres...
It has not happened since I have lived here & I am not sure there was a helicopter force when it last happened, but I image that is the activity were to travel east down the East Rift, closer to Kapoho, the birds would fly more over lower HPP, HB/HP/HS/HSRE & Nanawale...
When we moved, It was during a time of very low activity (in fact, we chose AGAINST living in Hilo because of the airplane noise! boy were we in for a surprise)....a little over a year later, we realized what air traffic in Puna can be like...and the fact that Keaau seems to be on the flight path of all of the flows during the last few years! ARRRGGGHH!
It is also not as clear cut... during the filming of the Indiana Jones movie, there was no helicopter traffic overhead for a week or so...because there was filming on the Shipman property.... also during highly active lava flows, helicopters are brought in from other islands...and there is less concern for where to go (As the National Park is highly restricted, this has become an issue of note, esp. in the news... That is also the problem with the direct ruler route formulas, they are VERY restricted on where they can fly within the National Park)
Not all helicopters are bad, in fact over the years a couple of the companies have made it their kuleana to fly with respect to the landowners beneath. There is one that is no longer flying over the schools, is not flying in flight packs anymore, and has really become nothing more than light traffic noise here....And I know that in our neighborhood, that is noticed & appreciated...& I did hire them for some of the research work I had BECAUSE they respected our concerns a few years ago...
And then there are the Green Harvest, which flies low, in packs, and under no semblance of destination to the landowners...until a spot is found, then ALLL of the landowners near the grow are in the middle of a beehive of helicopter activity...for as long as it takes...
And search and rescue, which is the ONLY activity where I truly understand flying low & accept those few annoyances....and I do realize when there is a search here, we are lucky to have as many options... just wish they would all make it a part of their kuleana to respect the landowners...
To the OP,
I'd take the above response with a grain of salt. What may be Carey's experience may not be what others are experiencing. I have seen "packs" flying over my home on a daily basis so what he may consider "nothing more than light traffic noise here", could mean heavier traffic elsewhere.
Unless you've flown with each and every operator for a period of time, I'm not sure how one can say for certainty what paths they take regardless of where the lava flows. Further, many operators include different sights such as valleys/waterfalls and may hit these spots BEFORE the volcano.
From what I've observed, weather and complaints drive flight paths.
As with any light aircraft, there are specific rules regarding flight safety and weather. The FAA sends inspectors to Hilo on a regular basis so they are not trying to get a safety infraction.
Complaints on the other hand is where you'll see Hawaii's liberal politics in it's truest, insidious form.
Law #1: No entity (residents, government) may harm tourism or, through inaction, allow any harm to come to tourism.
Law #2: Tour operators must obey the orders given to them by the government, except where such orders violate the First Law.
Law #3: The tourist industry must protect its own existence unless this violates the First or Second Laws.
NO ONE in government (state or federal) considers this an issue out here because tourism comes first, not residents.
The point is, they'll fly where they get the least amount of complaints. If you are the lone voice or among a relatively small amount of residents that actually lift a finger to complain, the operators will take advantage of this create a "highway" in the sky.
It's a numbers game and if you don't have the numbers behind you, good luck.
RE: helicopter flight paths. - PaulW - 05-06-2013
No problems in lower HPP.
RE: helicopter flight paths. - Carey - 05-06-2013
4 dog - Have you been able to get flight paths moved???
The "light traffic noise " ONLY is referring to ONE company that has changed their flights over our area (in town...)
They used to fly low & in packs with all of the other birdies... in the last couple of years, ONE company has changed... - dunno know exactly why, but do know that one of their employees posted here for a while...
Oh, & they only do waterfalls if there is little lava action or for extra $$$ on the volcano tours...as the waterfalls are from Hilo north & the volcano tours are south....
RE: helicopter flight paths. - SBH - 05-07-2013
quote:
Originally posted by Carey
Oh, & they only do waterfalls if there is little lava action or for extra $$$ on the volcano tours...as the waterfalls are from Hilo north & the volcano tours are south....
The waterfalls have always been included in Blue Hawaiian's Circle of Fire plus Waterfalls tour.
http://www.bluehawaiian.com/bigisland/tours/circle_of_fire/
Tour Details:
Departs from HILO.
"Tour the most geologically active environment on earth which has been continuously erupting since 1983. Tour emphasis is on the most current areas of volcanic activity. View lava flows, tropical rain forests and cascading waterfalls while learning about the history and culture of Hawaii.
Tour routes and sights visited may vary according to wind and weather conditions. Volcanic activity varies hourly."
RE: helicopter flight paths. - kalakoa - 05-07-2013
4dog has it almost 100% correct; the First Law is actually "revenue stream", of which "tourism" is one of the highest forms.
Around here, seems the tour helicopters fly as high as is convenient given current weather; to their credit, they do fly pretty high on those rare clear/calm days...
RE: helicopter flight paths. - peteadams - 05-07-2013
And they fly amazingly low and loud on the cloudy days, nearly directly over us, repeatedly.
RE: helicopter flight paths. - rainshadow - 05-07-2013
quote:
Originally posted by peteadams
And they fly amazingly low and loud on the cloudy days, nearly directly over us, repeatedly.
And these are the ones that deem documenting. (I've posted details previously on how to do this.)
-- rainshadow