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+--- Thread: Elec Power thread for the derailer (/showthread.php?tid=13920)
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Elec Power thread for the derailer - Carey - 07-07-2014
HELCO has steam co-gens here.... Do ANY research to know that! (although I do not think ANY power generation system was actually totally MANUFACTURED here)we do have HI companies that use GE steam turbines... do the research!
We have steam turbines here, and one of the oldest power generation turbines is still churning out our power, (the only HEICO owned renewable source on island)... so no need to go off island to bring in your steam turbines stories or pro/anti renewables or.....
For those that want more INTELLIGENT research on our power issues, Kohala Center website is a great resource...
Kohala Center research link for those that really want to know a little of the research done for this island:
http://kohalacenter.org/research
RE: Elec Power thread for the derailer - pahoated - 07-07-2014
Heat->Steam->Turbine->Rotary motion
No sure what this is about. The HELCO diesel fuel power plants burn oil to heat up a boiler of water to create steam to turn turbine blades that turn the electric generator. Steam is just the working fluid between the heat source and the turbine blades. It's actually not just steam, it is superheated steam. PGV is using pentane as their working fluid because it has more power transfer than steam and doesn't chew up turbine blades as much. Both are starting to fall by the wayside and there is a better working fluid emerging.
"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
RE: Elec Power thread for the derailer - Carey - 07-07-2014
Ted, I started this thread because some derailers were all over the lava flow thread with power generation woes...
Yes, Helco has diesel & jet fuel driven turbines on island. They also have co-gen that runs on "waste" stack heat...they also do have bump up generators... so a diversity of different fossil fuel generators & one old hydro unit that they run....and other IPP units they buy power from, with various investment portfolio ... and it seems that is where some have issues, the IPP run plants & the Helco run plants... and...
Well, that is why I posted the Kohala research link, as they have funded some fairly comprehensive research on this islands' power generation, distribution & needs... far more research than I think most of us have even looked at!
RE: Elec Power thread for the derailer - Bullwinkle - 07-07-2014
Yup - high pressure and heat need very close monitoring the first steam engine patented 1694.... james watt came along and made it practical in 1760 or so
Many cultural anthropologists (yep spent some there as well) will share this was the beginning of the fossil powered human population boom - "sustainability of the world population" now requiring massive increases in energy production - thats how we got to the mess we have today. Wars over oil, Fukushima, ecological disasters small and large. etc.
Watt died on 19 August 1819. A unit of measurement of electrical and mechanical power - the watt - is named in his honour.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/watt_james.shtml
derailer - is that a bicycle part?
RE: Elec Power thread for the derailer - pahoated - 07-08-2014
A lot of people forget HELCO has hydroelectric, 10MW from the Wailuku.
Just never saw a place that was so fixated on burning and steam, equating them to demons if they are used in power generation, while turning a blind eye to the burning of oil and superheated steam for the HELCO oil burning plants. Not only that, the complete stubborn unwillingness to become more educated about the electric power system kind of defines the word hick.
The Punatic circus can search for other demons now, since the next geothermal power plant will probably be totally out of kamaaina hands and most likely will be located elsewhere. It has been amusing to watch the Punatic circus start venturing west to spread their message of the geothermal apocalypse and even making their way to Oahu, looking like Uncle Mortimer and Aunt Daisy in the Big City.
"This island Hawaii on this island Earth"
RE: Elec Power thread for the derailer - Carey - 07-08-2014
2 of the 3 hydro plants on the Wailuku are IPP, only the oldest is HELCO - and the start of HELCO was the old hydro, so they started with a renewable...too bad they haven't invested in it since.
Their current business model is rely on more IPP investing in the production & just purchasing power & distribution.... too bad they haven't maintained & upgraded the distribution...line losses on this island are phenomenal.
OH, & HELCO has started to invest in the CNG convergence in their main production facilities, but seem to be also looking to IPP's to step in there...3-4 year projected conversion... wouldn't be surprised if it takes longer...
RE: Elec Power thread for the derailer - james weatherford - 07-08-2014
Hydro certainly is used on this island, according to the HELCO site there is over 16MW.
Wailuku River Hydro: 12.1 MW
Waiau Hydro: 1.1 MW
Puueo Hydro: 3.25 MW
http://www.hawaiielectriclight.com/helco/About-Us/Company-Facts
RE: Elec Power thread for the derailer - Bullwinkle - 07-08-2014
One needs to remember that if some thing goes wrong - we do not have the medical infrastructure to treat people - the nearest level one trauma center is?
In the meantime profit making companies are exempted from the liability per the contracts and by their off shore locations. Oops, see ya.
I think the prudent thing to do is find low risk energy production system while the rest of the infrastructure catches up.... lets get a level one trauma center in place - Id be in favor of geothermal if the operator paid for the hospital that needs to be in place.
In the meantime the only proven way to reduce waste and demand of the electricity is through price ..... 50 cents a kw sure catches my attention .....in fact I can make electricity for less - running my honda 2000 ..... at that level of pricing solar would be a no brainer if the regulations required same. Extreme conservation driven by pricing another option.
If it is going to be about profit and developers not having to bear the risk of their activities - Ill pass thank you
For me its a simple risk / reward math problem that just is not penciling out, happy to pay more if it keeps the risk down. Call it insurance
The off grid folks being stake holders, voting with their solar panels as well
good model for local hydro: http://website.kiuc.coop/content/hydro
Its Helco thats the problem .... how much do they pay the ceo?
RE: Elec Power thread for the derailer - Carey - 07-08-2014
James, it is not highlighted in your link, but Wailuku River Hydroelectric Power Company is an IPP, not a HELCO plant, it was also the last hydro plant installed on this island, as its' sister plant planned on Honoli`i was stopped & went to the supreme court, mostly due to lack of island hydrodynamic modeling.
There has been no other hydro proposed in the 20 years since... Not sure the modeling will ever get done, either. Oceanit did some studies a few years ago, haven't heard anything since they started looking for investors...but they also were questioned on their output quotes, as they overrated most of the working plants...
Also, HELCO wages are based on the average of similar sized power plants, all of the wages, inc. the administration...and are reviewed by the PUC..and HELCO is a sub of HEICO, the parent plant...
RE: Elec Power thread for the derailer - leilanidude - 07-08-2014
lets get a level one trauma center in place - Id be in favor of geothermal if the operator paid for the hospital that needs to be in place.
Bullwinkle - who do you think would actually be paying for that? It would be the consumer, in the form of higher prices, just like this so-called royalty fund is actually paid for by the consumers, in the form of higher prices for the electricity.