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+--- Thread: Cultural Rifts? (/showthread.php?tid=15291)
Cultural Rifts? - ironyak - 12-26-2014
http://www.punaweb.org/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20317
quote:
Originally posted by dakine
quote:
Originally posted by Southernmost
Be silent, listen and learn. All you malahinis really need to learn that. But instead, all you do is yak, yak, yak. All waha. So much words coming out of your mouth and not listening to the people of this land is why wisdom will never reach your mind.
Pa'a ka waha
If you do not listen to this, or understand what Southernmost is saying, you should consider going back to wherever you came from because you certainly haven't figured out how to live here.
This is not America, as much as you all would love to think it is. Americans are occupiers here and there will be a day of reckoning. Please be respectful of the land, it's people, and their ways. Otherwise you are missing a golden opportunity to enrich your lives. And for what? So you can continue to shop at Walmart?
I hope that respected voices such as opihikao and others would weigh in on such statements. The tone and tactics of intimidation in this and other posts only promotes further division in our community. If I have misunderstood, can dakine can please explain what he/she meant?
For Southernmost, (and others)
Guides for online conduct note to only post what you want to share forever. Although posts may not be visible currently, they have not been deleted and are discoverable. Use of YELLING and racial epithets in forums connected to your real name seems particularly ill-advised.
Posting comments only to then later delete them as you've done here and elsewhere does not appear forthright. Of course, they are your posts to do with as you like, but if you truly believe your statements, why would you remove them?
While some may see this as trolling, I respectively disagree. If we cannot discuss these issues, then what recourse is there for fixing them? While there appear to be cultural differences involved that punafish and others have talked about, we all have a choice and responsibility for how we treat each other both on and offline. Honest conversations can be difficult but they need not be hostile.
Hopefully we can openly share whatever truths we are able to stand by.
"Don’t wait until it’s too late to say what needs to be said, to do what needs to be done." - Philip T Sudo
"We have got to learn to disagree without being violently disagreeable." - Martin Luther King Jr
RE: Cultural Rifts? - Lupie - 12-26-2014
I'm going to weigh in as a haole.
I think you are reading into this wrong.
There are no "intimidation tactics" being used here.
All, I see, that's being said is... Stop, listen, and learn. There is a LOT that people can learn from the the land and the Hawaiians. I see and hear so many that want to change everything, and make the islands to be more "comfortable" for themselves. They want the islands to be like the mainland. Yet when one has that type of thinking, and you don't take the opportunity to learn from the land and the Hawaiians who have beautiful lessons to teach... These are the type of people that are really missing out, and in all honesty, would be happier going back to the mainland rather than complaining about how things aren't the way they would like them to be.
RE: Cultural Rifts? - ironyak - 12-26-2014
I appreciate the feedback. How do you interpret "day of reckoning"?
Some of this is based on posts made here and elsewhere that have been removed and are much more concerning. I believe several of us know what was said and am asking those that do to weigh in on what they've seen and experienced.
RE: Cultural Rifts? - lavalava - 12-26-2014
As someone who grew up in a small town full of natural beauty and abundant wildlife, I too know the pain of seeing greedy developers and big business come and ruin everything. They market their new devos to the rich city people and slowly but surely my hometown is now a tourist trap town with no sense of what it once was. Now trust me when I say there was a serious rift between the locals and the newcomers. One group wanted everything to go back to how it was and the other group wanted even more change (we got a walmart after lots of fighting against it). Moral of the story is change is not always good. Progress is in the eye of the beholder. BTW, all parties mentioned above are white caucasians and yet we locals would have liked a "day of reckoning" for ruining our valley with strip.malls and the like!!
RE: Cultural Rifts? - Lupie - 12-26-2014
Well said lavalava.
"Day of reckoning" certainly doesn't have to be interpreted as a statement of violence. This is all in how you perceive the message ironyak. My guess is that you have heard, or experienced some sort of "cultural rift", and there in turn its affecting how you are interrupting the statements you have read. I'm not pointing fingers... It's easy to read something wrong when you don't know the emotions of the OP. It's also easy to let fear of the unknown take over and impair our thinking.
RE: Cultural Rifts? - Southernmost - 12-26-2014
This will be our last online conversation ironyak. Anything I have said on here I would say to your face even though I have no idea who you are nor do you know me. I am who I am and that's all I am. I have never said anything racial, my ohana includes every race there is on these islands. Anything i have posted, i am in no way ashamed of. To call me out like this with no truth behind shows me your true self.
When I use capitals, it is because it is something I and many locals are angry about that malahinis don't get. How can you yell online through a forum??? Wow, mind blown here. I have a general feeling most(not all) will never listen to the people of this land. And too bad, because most wouldn't even want to talk to you about anything! We are actually trying to help albeit in a very blunt way, for you to understand! And no, I am not an expert on this, I fully admit that. I just know how I feel inside and it comes out.
Listen to the kupuna, the native Hawaiian elders if you want knowledge, that's what I have done my whole life and still doing. And I told you that.That's what we were taught, be humble, be quiet and listen so you can gain wisdom from those who have it. The way I see it, many of you will go against the people and those end up leaving like many others like you have that came here. Some will listen and learn and end up here for life, and finally some live in isolation only being around people like themselves never knowing or feeling what these special, sacred islands are about. PAU
RE: Cultural Rifts? - shockwave rider - 12-26-2014
Ironyak: "For Southernmost, (and others)
Guides for online conduct note to only post what you want to share forever. Although posts may not be visible currently, they have not been deleted and are discoverable. Use of YELLING and racial epithets in forums connected to your real name seems particularly ill-advised."
Who are you to tell other people what they should and shouldn't do in an online forum you do not moderate. You are a relative newcomer to punaweb, as are many others now posting here since the lava started moving on the North side, but for a person who has absolutely saturated punaweb with posts and new threads, often 5 or more posts in a row with no responses in between, to tell others how they should behave here is absurd.
How about if you just let others state their piece every once in a while and listen more than you speak?
RE: Cultural Rifts? - Southernmost - 12-26-2014
And mahalo nui loa Lupie, wave rider and lavalava!! Mahalo Ke Akua for people like you with compassion, consideration and overstanding!
RE: Cultural Rifts? - punafish - 12-26-2014
"If we cannot discuss these issues, then what recourse is there for fixing them? While there appear to be cultural differences involved that punafish and others have talked about, we all have a choice and responsibility for how we treat each other both on and offline. Honest conversations can be difficult but they need not be hostile."
ironyak, I respect your sentiments and online demeanor. But after observing online behavior for a couple decades now, I've found that civil discussions are rare, and I've never once seen a cultural rift get repaired. Sadly it almost always gets worse, especially when both sides start hurling stones at each other. (Just look around here on punaweb. Even "the haoles" on this forum get snarky and mean-spirited with each other over the silliest issues, and we're the same race and culture!) Let's face it, lots of folks feel safe and secure taking shots at others from behind their keyboards. It's so easy to dehumanize others in this situation, especially those who disagree with you. And yet if the online rivals were sitting across from each other, looking each other in the eye...well, it's funny how people suddenly can get civil and polite!
My point? I agree there needs to be a discussion on culture. But I think a forum like this will prove to be counterproductive.
A respected cultural anthropologist (Edward T. Hall) once said that cross-cultural communication is not about "sending the right message", rather, it's about "getting a desired response." So if one's "desired response" is to change someone's mind about something, or just get them in a cooperative mood, then belligerently hitting them over the head with what one believes to be the truth (even if it really is the truth) buys you absolutely nothing. You've just pushed that person in a box, into a position of defiance. And you'll never move forward from there.
Hopefully most of us can agree that choosing to "listen" is a good thing. But we should probably stop telling each other to listen? lol (YOU listen! No YOU listen! No YOU listen!)
Hopefully I'm wrong and this thread turns into a productive discussion.
RE: Cultural Rifts? - lavalava - 12-26-2014
Only when Hawaii is paved and leveraged to the hilt with resorts on every beach, only then will the close minded wonder where the "old hawaii" went...