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+--- Thread: Drive To Hilo (/showthread.php?tid=15390)
Drive To Hilo - kalakoa - 01-11-2015
(Intended as a serious topic, not a rantfest.)
People of Puna drive to Hilo for many things, and it seems counterproductive. I am well aware of the historical Planning which drove things to this point, but I'm curious as to how it persists despite the population growth.
People who "have to" commute to Hilo for work were aware of that commute when they moved to Puna; jobs are generally not moving to Puna, other than the new HMSA building in Keaau, and it's not clear what the commute is for those workers.
I believe there are significant numbers of people who didn't "have to" drive to Hilo until (a) their local farmers' market got shut down (b) Malama left the Pahoa Marketplace.
Besides the lack of suitable C-zoned real estate (and all the Planning issues that implies), what factors are preventing development in Puna? Lack of customer demand?
I seem to recall a proposed KTA on highway 130 before the Bryson's stripmall project. Assuming KTA wasn't pulling an SUP just to gauge the potential customer base, this implies that there were enough customers to make a supermarket worth building in Puna. Now that the Bryson's project is on indefinite hold due to lava, where will the supermarket go?
When will everyone stop pretending that Puna is either "ag lands" or a "bedroom community", and if it's really not supposed to have any local commerce, how about 6 lanes to Hilo with a full interchange at highway 11?
Maybe those who aren't commuting have already figured out how to get everything they need, and they simply don't care that "everyone else" is sitting in traffic...?
RE: Drive To Hilo - ironyak - 01-11-2015
That is probably the most I've seen from you in a single post so it may still be a rant although well worded and reasonable.
A couple thoughts on lower Puna:
The last 10 years has seen enormous commercial growth in lower Puna with the Pahoa Marketplace and Woodlands (Longs, BK, etc) developments. If these were still fully operational, what else do you think is needed in the area?
As I recall, the KTA project was to be on 130 at Aulii st. I do not know for certain what happened, but friends who lived nearby were not pleased with a major shopping center setting up near their home. Grafting commercial operations onto established residential areas is prone for failure and reflect the overall lack of planning.
What local farmers markets are you referring to? SPACE? HA? Other? We find Maku'u works well for our fruit amd veggie needs and hope that more local offerings (bread, diary, etc) develop to further cut down trips to Keaau or Hilo. Establishing a vibrant local market in each neighborhood would be great if supported and sustainable.
As for commuting, most jobs are not nearby so Puna acts largely as a suburb of Hilo. Not really that unusual compared to other 'cities', although better roads are often established.
Ultimately, it seems clear that no one was supposed to actually move here and live in our speculative subdivisions and the county has demonstrated very little interest in providing planning, zoning, or services to support this growth. Whether or not this is a good thing or not depends on one's expectations and willingness to DIY, drive, shop online, or do without.
An excess of consumer demand and dollars will overcome the hurdles of commercial development in Puna. For now, everything is on pause due to lava, and it will probably take many months or years to restore the previous level of commercial offerings.
Except for the lava impact, the PCDP identified most of these issues and suggested many solutions should the county have an interest in understanding or considering options.
RE: Drive To Hilo - kalakoa - 01-12-2015
Grafting commercial operations onto established residential areas
Lack of planning: if the subdivisions were created as bona fide "residential", livability would have required some properly integrated commercial, along with parks, a reserve strip for eventual sidewalks, etc. Apparently none of this was required for "agriculture".
An excess of consumer demand and dollars will overcome the hurdles of commercial development in Puna.
This. I keep forgetting that Puna is "poor", comparable in some ways to a ghetto (especially the "food desert" part).
no one was supposed to actually move here and live
Yet here we are, putting up with all the poor planning. Apparently some people have developed workarounds, maybe a better question is "what's the longest you've gone without Hilo, and how did you do it".
the PDCP identified most of these issues and suggested many solutions
Assuming the PCDP is fully implemented by 2050, it will only be about 30 years too late.
There has to be another way.
RE: Drive To Hilo - leilanidude - 01-12-2015
More commercial space and lower electric costs are the only way that lower Puna will be able to get away from "drive to Hilo".
RE: Drive To Hilo - kalakoa - 01-12-2015
There's probably enough money in Puna to support more commercial space, but it's currently all being spent in Hilo and Kona (and on Amazon...)
Cost of electricity: yes, cheaper power could tilt the scale, but assume that local shopping already has the advantage in time/gas savings.
RE: Drive To Hilo - Seeb - 01-12-2015
One of the holdups is the pcdp wants business to be away from the hiway retail business wants to be on the hiway, which is exactly were longs and burger king went.
RE: Drive To Hilo - Rob Tucker - 01-12-2015
Almost true. Long's and Burger King got as close to the highway as the PCDP would allow... good for them. But they did not get access ON the highway.
The PCDP position is based on this: The single largest item of input from the residents was to keep Puna a rural place. The best single way the Land Use Group could find to achieve this goal was to protect the districts highways and byways from San Fernando style strip mall development. Thus the Village Center method of development was preferred. Allowing selected village centers to develop made sense on several levels but a main one was to, as much as practical, have the traveling experience through the district to remain as non commercial as possible.
It was in that manner that a super market proposal for Aulii was resisted.
So to date the PCDP has had effect in meeting the criteria provided by the residents by inhibiting commercialization of Hwy 130.
RE: Drive To Hilo - kalakoa - 01-12-2015
Thus the Village Center method of development was preferred.
Yes, and the "designated village centers" are basically "what we already have", namely, an inadequate stock of C-zoned real estate, and no real plans to create more.
I wonder how long everything will be "on hold" for the lava flow...
RE: Drive To Hilo - ironyak - 01-12-2015
Originally posted by kalakoa
Cost of electricity: yes, cheaper power could tilt the scale, but assume that local shopping already has the advantage in time/gas savings.
I've never thought of the cost of electricity as a limiting factor. The use of alternatives (line drying clothes, low wattage bulbs, charging elctronics while driving, solar hot water, occasional candles, etc) has offset this expense enough to not be a real budget consideration IMO (YMMV).
As seen at Corner Store, Malamas, etc - convenience in a rural setting comes with increased prices. While we miss Longs and Malama's for the occasional one-offs, any serious shopping was and is still done in Hilo (or Costco as needed). The price differences quickly justify the cost of gas, especially when combined with other errands (beaches, parks, movies, dining, doctors, full library, etc, etc, etc)
IMHO the PCDP hits the right balance - provide some essential services nearby without strip mall sprawl. However, there will always be a need to drive to Hilo if Puna is to stay mostly rural. That is a reasonable and desirable trade off for us.
RE: Drive To Hilo - Rob Tucker - 01-12-2015
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
Thus the Village Center method of development was preferred.
Yes, and the "designated village centers" are basically "what we already have", namely, an inadequate stock of C-zoned real estate, and no real plans to create more.
I wonder how long everything will be "on hold" for the lava flow...
Of course the village centers are what we have. They are what the people have built under the limitations imposed by lack of planning. Do you think someone is going to build a village for you? People build villages.... the only affect of the PCDP forward is where to build them.