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Miss Naeole, Power Production Coupled w/ Disposal - Printable Version +- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum) +-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10) +--- Thread: Miss Naeole, Power Production Coupled w/ Disposal (/showthread.php?tid=1571) |
Miss Naeole, Power Production Coupled w/ Disposal - JayJay - 11-11-2007 The first time I saw this beautifully spirited woman I was aware she carried a message for the people of Hawaii. Of course I didn't know what it was ... it was something I just knew ... and those kinds of moments, it's my belief, should be tucked away and filed within the lexicon of good things to come which we all carry subconciously. Some years later I was sitting in front of Lexs' waiting for the mechanic to finish my car's brakes when, low and behold, she walked across the parking lot and stood right before me smiling that beautiful Hawaiian smile. The first thing she said was "Aloha brother,Will you vote for me?" I love this woman. She's the kind of person who radiates sincerety and as you look into her eyes you know she means business. There's been debate recently concerning the appropriateness of erecting an incinerator for the removal of solid waste, and of course people are concerned ... and rightfully so ... and Miss Naeole has had the forsight to visit plants abroad to determine for herself whether such an option should be considered here on our tiny and enviromentally sensitive archepelago, and I thought I'd take the opportunity to explain briefly what this process entails and perhaps clarify a little better what could be our future should this system be adopted. When we think of incinerators our minds automatically present the engram of some type of effluent stack belching large quanities of ash and chemical compounds into the heavens and that concept was entirely true until the early seventies when the technology took a quantum leap by running the discarge through a series of inter-connected compartments equipped with a special lining at a lower temperature which significantly reduced stack emission. Today the technology is capable of capturing emissions to such a degree that a person can literally breath what has essentially become a 'non-emission' from the discharge end of the system. Hardly, I think, a threat to our lovely island home. Systems exist which can also capture the ash, elements and compounds removed from the stack system in a way that they can be separated one from another. These componets can be bagged, creating a whole new industry which will supply needed jobs, and being sold back to industry for various manufacturing and agricultural reqirements. This includeds the ash. Also, as this system operates, the heat potential of the burning process can fire boilers, which, linked to a water injection system, will create steam capable of turning turbins, which in turn, power generators which produce the perfect power ... 660volt, 3-Phase, AC, and of course, the transmission system for the delivery of this electricity already exists thanks to Helco and others. I'm personally very glad that I took the opportunity to help place Miss Naeole in her position of being a public servant, and I expect, over the years, we're going to see great things emerge from her leadership since she is, obviously, comming into her own. We need to put aside those images of what an industrial incinerator used to be and accept the fact that a new technology has arrived and that we, for many reasons, need to utilize it while we can still afford to build it and it's my opinion that we should thank our lucky stars that Miss Naeole is not merely talking about creating a better and more technologically appropriate society, she's really out there walking her talk and I believe she deserves our unreserved support. JayJay Edited by - JayJay on 11/14/2007 03:46:07 RE: Miss Naeole, Power Production Coupled w/ Disposal - Carey - 11-12-2007 Actually, Councilwoman Naeole went to the mainland to see incinerators run by Wheelabrater, one the companies bidding for the county propasal. It was Councilman Jacobson who 'went abroad' to Taiwan (self funded trip) & went to the Neihu incinerator, not run by Wheelabrater (and not run by the same standards, it seems) See the article: http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/articles/2007/11/07/local_news/local06.txt Edited by - carey on 11/12/2007 09:39:46 RE: Miss Naeole, Power Production Coupled w/ Disposal - JerryCarr - 11-12-2007 I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but there ARE downsides to incinerators. They always produce emissions, no matter how good the scrubbers are. Are those emissions worse than groundwater pollution seeping from landfills? I don't know, but airborn dioxin (produced by burning many plastics) is a nasty buggah. The scrubbers must be meticulously maintained and monitored, resulting in periodic down-time for upkeep. Incinerators produce ash, which must be disposed of, usually in landfills. Incinerators are expensive, with waste to energy type units being more expensive to build and maintain. Our County has a long and well-documented history of going way over budget on its building projects. As far as Ms. Naeole's visits on the mainland, with all due respect, do we really think that the guys from Wheelabrator would show her anything but their very best? The ability of our local and state environmental protection agencies to monitor an incinerator is a concern to me. They are already stretched beyond their abilities and funding with currently mandated duties. The garbage to energy conversion appeals to most of us, and this should be considered, but we need to look at all aspects before we commit to spending $40 million (probably more) of scarce Big Island funds. And if you think this might lower your power bill, think again. Geothermal and wind farm energy producers on the Big Island have been guaranteed prices equivalent to whatever HELCO is getting for their oil fired electricity, regardless of the production cost of the green power. I am not saying that Wheelabrator or something similar would absolutely not work. It might be part of the solution. I just think we need to be aware of exactly what we are buying into. FWIW, I think the ultimate solution to rubbish disposal is to create LESS of it and recycle every conceivable bit of what's left after reduction. Then we just might end up with some manageable amount of stuff to be disposed of. Cheers, Jerry RE: Miss Naeole, Power Production Coupled w/ Disposal - mella l - 11-12-2007 Energy firms study tidal power at Canada's Deer Island - Water turbines studied sfgate.com http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/12/MN9PT4S72.DTL&hw=water+turbines&sn=001&sc=1000 I believe Carey has posted something in regards to these turbines in the channel between Maui and the BI where currents are strong. Probably not as strong as the Bay of Fundy, but strong enough. We have a burner here NOR CA. Depending on which way the wind is blowing it seems to be working well and for supplemental, booster type energy for really cold periods or really hot periods to lessen the load on the grid. It only burns green waste, no papers, plastic, painted wood, glued woods ect. Just another idea to think about. We will all need something in the near future to address the oil issue. mella l RE: Miss Naeole, Power Production Coupled w/ Disposal - Kahunascott - 11-12-2007 We should haul the trash to PTA and let the army drop bombs on it.... or ...drop it in the volcano at 2000*F there shouldn't even be any smoke. "Many dreams come true and some have silver linings, I look for my dreams and a pocket full of gold" Led Zeppelin RE: Miss Naeole, Power Production Coupled w/ Disposal - Kelena - 11-13-2007 Scott! Please don't feed the volcano! (Gin's okay). RE: Miss Naeole, Power Production Coupled w/ Disposal - loffelkopffl - 11-13-2007 oh, that's funny, but this was a serious thread, it's kinda like that other guy............................ RE: Miss Naeole, Power Production Coupled w/ Disposal - JayJay - 11-13-2007 Of course everything starts with education of the young, and through time the collective conciousness expands until it's considered incorrect to do otherwise. Right now, due to the fact that the exigencies of recycling have not been properly addressed in our schools, in our churches (yes this is a spiritual problem also), by the various state and local departments charged with such forms of enviromental ledership, and especially by the Govenor's office, we see the result throughout Hawaii. Shall we simply end up barging our wastes to another's home? Or worse yet, barging it into the sea and discarding it as is done off the East Coast of the United States. What a travesty such acts are against Mother Earth. Combined with public education tailored initially toward the young, we've must use every conceivable approach to reduce the amount of waste on the one hand, while utilizing any form of approrpriate technology on the other. The problem has never been financial no matter what we are told ... the problem has been a dearth of responsible leadership from those who really care for the Aina. In so doing I see the value and potential leverage of the incineration process as being a major player in the equation we've been handed, for the most part, by a historically slothful and unimmaginative team of state and local administrators, who, over the years, knew all to well, that eventually the hammer would fall, as of course it has done, as evidenced by the complete filling and subsequent contamination of ground water, yet they didn't seem to care, while passing the problem off to the next generation of players. To solve any problem I believe it's best to start with the history of the system being examined. Past sub-standard leadership has brought us to this arena and that's the history ... and that's the truth ... but what now shall we do? Shall we be timid and do nothing, since we fear the incinerater system is not perfect, or shall we stick with the strength of our conviction and demand that the situation be taken care of by the best possible technology. Shouldn't we demand it. Shouldn't we demand that the water tables be no longer contaminated and say we don't want to hear why it can't be done. Make a plan and begin solving it or you're out! Shouldn't we demand an across-the-board combined state and local campaign which reallyhas the capacity to instill withi the hearts of the children and others the reality that the Aina must be cherished and subsequently protected at all costs? Shouldn't the children esteem the Aina so much so that they wouldn't dream of 'not' recycling or litering these sacred islands? We must find leaders who are not afraid 'not to bow' to special interests or any group and I believe one of those 'new' leaders has just arrived. I think it should suffice to say, and any even casual overview of the island's history will bare this out, that the general populations have been, overall, complacent, and the powers that be, have seized on this attibute of the people and have ran things into the ground, again, as evidenced by the fact that they have actually allowed the basic trash system of the island to back up, like a toilet, (and their solution? ... 'LET'S EXTEND THE SIDES OF THE TOILET'), so let's face it ... they've FAILED miserably, and we're left facing the aftermath. We need new [aggressive] green leadership and they can be R's or D's or independents, I don't care ... since the current cadre causes all of us to languish within a territorialy-minded district where we receive the hand-me-downs if we're lucky and as I've stated, I see a light on the horizon and I'll support her one-hundred per cent. If she believes an incinerator will work we should have it. We should demand it. JayJay Edited by - JayJay on 11/14/2007 03:36:52 Edited by - JayJay on 11/14/2007 03:53:35 RE: Miss Naeole, Power Production Coupled w/ Disposal - PunaLover - 11-15-2007 In an ideal world and all things worked well all the time this would be a good idea. But the IF on this is so big like Jay Jay says story history of this island a lot bs has been goin on for along time. The illegal dumping of waste all through the Park was one thing I first got involved with because it was and is happening everywhere. The letter I just got back from Steven Y.K. Chang, P.E. Chief, Solid and Hazardous Waste Branch, Dept, of Health, Honolulu. States in order to persue a case they would need to know information as: ". The date and time the solid waste was improperly disposed. . The location, including an address or tax map key number, where the solid waste was disposed. .The location where the solid waste was generated.? . Who disposed of the solid waste. .A description of the type amd amount of solid waste that was disposed. So I guess he's thinking I'm gonna drive all over HPP collecting all this information for him so he can fly over and check them all out make some noise write some letter and go home to oahu where he can take all the credit for all his work. They have no one on the BIGGEST island for solid and hazardous waste. It's a branch of the Dept. of Health in Honolulu. So what does that tell you about priorities of our county? Where's all this new tax money going? |