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+--- Thread: Let's say the TMT protestors succeed... (/showthread.php?tid=15814)
Let's say the TMT protestors succeed... - knieft - 04-11-2015
http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/local-news/tmt-mum-plans-resume-work-opponents-prep-additional-protests-arrests-early-week
Since the esteemed good ol boy governor is asking the protestors for _permission_ to go up the mountain, and "celebrities" are using the slogan to draw more attention to themselves and their implants, and reason has made no progress in unfurling non-reason, I have to wonder what will happen if these protestors get their way? Given the jet stream of political correctness, I have to think there is a non-zero chance that the protestors will have the wind blow their way.
What would be the next step for the righteous? Is there some sort of end game, or it this just flavor of the month?
Cheers,
Kirt
RE: Let's say the TMT protestors succeed... - macuu222 - 04-11-2015
Well it looks like the protesters are doing something right....
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/20150411_Gov_Ige_announces_postponement_of_telescope_construction.html
RE: Let's say the TMT protestors succeed... - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 04-11-2015
It's my experience that it takes far less energy to impede or stop something, than it does to create or build something. If the protestors stop the TMT they will next arrive at a fork in the road. One path will require a great deal of effort by many people if they choose to create the kind of society of which they speak.
But it's something that could happen with or without any buildings on Mauna Kea. Even if the TMT is built, they could go on to build a new society. With land from OHA, and additional educational opportunities from Kamehameha Schools, the basic tools needed are already available to get a start.
RE: Let's say the TMT protestors succeed... - ironyak - 04-11-2015
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
One path will require a great deal of effort by many people if they choose to create the kind of society of which they speak.
Do you mind providing some details on what your read is regarding what this society might look like? I can imagine several possibilities but cannot pin down what you mean.
As for what might happen in the event that the TMT is blocked completely. The alliance of different groups might flex their new political influence on several kanaka maoli issues across the islands (Better education and health outcomes, quicker action by OHA on housing, improved land & ocean stewardship, etc), possibily accomplished by pushing for increased presence at the political table via new political groups or agencies.
I don't know what the goal, or needs, really are so these are just personal guesses.
RE: Let's say the TMT protestors succeed... - lavalava - 04-11-2015
Your point is moot as the TMT will be built.
RE: Let's say the TMT protestors succeed... - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 04-11-2015
Do you mind providing some details on what your read is regarding what this society might look like?
It was just a general comment based on what I've read over the past week. I suppose it might include:
* Some form of self government
* Perhaps Hawaiian communities built on Hawaiian Homelands property
* A more rural, agrarian lifestyle that would include fishing and perhaps hunting as a food source
There are probably as many ideas for a new Hawaiian society as there are protesters
RE: Let's say the TMT protestors succeed... - snorkle - 04-11-2015
Well, those bumbling surf rats at Kauai certainly didn't stand a chance in Hell of impeding the Superferry.
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]RE: Let's say the TMT protestors succeed... - PunaMauka2 - 04-11-2015
"Do you mind providing some details on what your read is regarding what this society might look like? I can imagine several possibilities but cannot pin down what you mean."
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pretty much anyone's guess, right? ...dakine provided some highly imaginative utopian-to-him visions involving global salvation through a de-industrialized Hawaii throwback, a selective forced exodus, and worldwide racial segregation. i haven't seen any version provided by HOTPE yet. my current version involves rightfully returning the 'aina to Hawaii's extinct flightless bird species after they have been resurrected by upcoming advances in DNA technology.
RE: Let's say the TMT protestors succeed... - PunaMauka2 - 04-11-2015
"As for what might happen in the event that the TMT is blocked completely. The alliance of different groups might flex their new political influence on several kanaka maoli issues across the islands (Better education and health outcomes, quicker action by OHA on housing, improved land & ocean stewardship, etc), possibily accomplished by pushing for increased presence at the political table via new political groups or agencies."
or it could backfire resulting in a net loss of credibility in the eyes of the community due to frustration over the growing list of peculiar claims and antics displayed by a disproportionately vocal and disruptive activist fringe with very unclear goals and motives. perhaps that will eventually result in a net gain for all after the kookier more fanatical elements have burnt themselves out?
RE: Let's say the TMT protestors succeed... - Chunkster - 04-11-2015
quote:
Originally posted by snorkle
Well, those bumbling surf rats at Kauai certainly didn't stand a chance in Hell of impeding the Superferry.
The Superferry skipped a critical legal step (full EIS) and began operations without following the full sequence or permits, etc. The guys at TMT are either smarter or have learned from the failure of the Superferry because they have meticulously followed the permitting and leasing laws. The protesters are using civil disobedience and playing on sympathy because they lost in court and lost their permit appeals.