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+--- Thread: Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How? (/showthread.php?tid=15975)
Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How? - Wao nahele kane - 05-16-2015
Because there are those who feel there will be a Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty establish within or of the State of Hawaii, here's some questions.
(1) After Reading through the March 31, 2009 SCOTUS opinion regarding the "Apology Resolution" found here - http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/08pdf/07-1372.pdf
By what means do you feel it possible to challenge U.S. annexation of Hawaii and the State of Hawaii admission as a member of the Union including its held stewardship over ceded lands?
(2) Considering the outcome of the US DOI meetings that were held last year, where do you think the matter of a possible Hawaiian Government to Government relations stand at this time?
(3) By what means do you feel it possible or not possible that the United States is capable of relinquishing State held lands to a Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty for full self governance?
(4) Do you feel the Hawaiian movement is gaining ground and if so or not so, how so?
(5) Finally - If it isn't possible to establish a Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty, how would you like to see the matter resolved?
RE: Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How? - Wao nahele kane - 05-16-2015
(1) The SCOTUS makes it fairly clear that there is no way to revisit the matter of Hawaii's annexation or the admission of the State of Hawaii to the Union. It further continues by noting what would appear to be a notation regarding an attempt to retroactively apply a law "apology resolution" three decades after admission as a State.
"Third, because the resolution would raise grave constitutional concerns if it purported to “cloud” Hawaii’s title to its sovereign lands more than three decades after the State’s admission to the Union, see, e.g., Idaho v. United States, 533 U. S. 262, 280, n. 9, the Court refuses to read the nonsubstantive “whereas” clauses to create such a “cloud” retroactively, see, e.g., Clark v. Martinez, 543 U. S. 371, 381– 382. Pp. 10–12. 117 Haw. 174, 177 P. 3d 884, reversed and remanded. ALITO, J., delivered the opinion for a unanimous Court."
So no, I don't feel it's possible to challenge State ownership of those now public lands. This also reminds me that these ceded lands are now more so owned by the Native Hawaiian than they were under the Kingdom. Though it now takes a 2/3 State legislative vote to dispose/sell these lands, I believe they are still available for particular lease uses of which Native Hawaiians are afforded an array of guaranteed loans to execute such ventures.
(2) After reading through a few PDF files worth of transcripts in comments by the representatives of the Native Hawaiians that there was little to no desire to establish a unified Hawaiian Government to US Government relationship and that the current community organizations became by default the current continued course of representation of the Native Hawaiian communities. So that Government to Government relationship would appear not possible at this time.
(3) I don't feel it's possible for the State of Hawaii combined with the US Congress to generate any sort of Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty for full governance within or of the State of Hawaii.
(4) I don't feel the movement is gaining ground because it has no unity and therefore will remain in a state of continue turmoil regarding any sort of settlement in matters. These situations will only increase in scope as time goes on.
(5) I don't think it can be resolved and each issue will add itself the growing pile of issues while further diluting the ability to resolve each following issues as they arise.
RE: Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How? - MarkP - 05-16-2015
There is presently a lot of emotion leading to events and decisions that are non-productive and that I fear will have a lingering negative impact in the sense that potential investors will think twice about investing in Hawaii. I think that Hawaiian Sovereignty activists are so divided and some are so extreme, and the TMT issue so controversial, that when the dust settles the sovereignty cause may well be worse off than when it started.
RE: Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How? - MattKarma - 05-17-2015
The Obese US Government borrows even more from the Chinese government, defaults, sells Hawaii to cover the debt. The Chinese sets up the rightful Hawaiians as an easy way to control the territory.
RE: Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How? - Mtviewdude - 05-17-2015
quote:
Originally posted by MattKarma
The Obese US Government borrows even more from the Chinese government, defaults, sells Hawaii to cover the debt. The Chinese sets up the rightful Hawaiians as an easy way to control the territory.
***Buzzz**** Incorrect answer, Chinese holding of US debt has been decreasing this year, with the Japanese increasing their holdings and surpassing China as the #1 foreign holder of US Debt.
Thanks for playing the puna person clings to incorrect facts and runs with it game.
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/china-s-holdings-us-government-debt-have-declined-2013
quote:
(CNSNews.com) - The Japanese, who increased their holdings of U.S. government debt from $1,201,400,000,000 to $1,238,600,000,000 in the year between January 2014 and January 2015, are poised to surpass the Mainland Chinese as the top foreign owners of U.S. government debt.
In contrast to the Japanese, the Mainland Chinese decreased their holdings of U.S. government debt from $1,275,600,000,000 to $1,239,100,000,000 during the same period, according to data released by the U.S. Treasury this week.
Would you care to play our bonus round. GMO - labeling!
RE: Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How? - lavalava - 05-17-2015
And the award for snarky PW wannabe knowitall is this ^^ guy. Congratulations “dude”. Wanna play our bonus round - How miserable am I?
RE: Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How? - Mtviewdude - 05-17-2015
quote:
Originally posted by lavalava
And the award for snarky PW wannabe knowitall is this ^^ guy. Congratulations “dude”. Wanna play our bonus round - How miserable am I?
I would like to thank the academy, the good people of puna, for without their tireless effort none of my snark would be possible.
I will take your bonus round and answer, "If ignorance is bliss, then I must be a sorry miserable lot"
RE: Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How? - pahoated - 05-17-2015
I support the native Hawaiians even though not being one. They rightfully deserve reparations. The choice isn't complicated, either Sovereign Kingdom or Sovereign Nation. The kingdom means returning to a monarchy. A nation would mean a symbolic monarchy, parliamentary government, and ownership of the all the ceded and native lands.
The kingdom choice is never going to go anywhere. When the Hawaiian monarchy suddenly realized many of their ohana were dying mysteriously on long sea voyages, they started adopting into the royal line. The Kamehameha dynasty lasted only 80 years. The two remaining direct distant cousins of Kamehameha are also there with possibly hundreds of ali'i from Queen Kapiolani's descendants including from several adopted children. Not only that, there is contention with Oahu and Kauai ali'i that say they never recognized Kamehameha.
The US federal government is ready to sit down with the native Hawaiians for basically a treaty to establish a Hawaii Nation. There has been a lot of propaganda to sway the native Hawaiians, that this is unacceptable and a Democrat plot. The ones behind this propaganda are Republicans. The Republicans know that as long the Hawaiians squabble over the Kingdom, they will never come together. So far, it is working in their favor.
"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"
RE: Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How? - Rob Tucker - 05-17-2015
Kinda sums up what one of Linda Lingle's people explained to me. The way they deal with Puna is to get everyone arguing and then simply walk away.
RE: Hawaiian Independent Sovereignty - How? - Wao nahele kane - 05-17-2015
"The US federal government is ready to sit down with the native Hawaiians for basically a treaty to establish a Hawaii Nation."
Where did you derive that information and by what measure are you using the word "Nation"?
Are you referencing the DOI talks from last year?