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+--- Thread: Pohoiki or Pohiki ? (/showthread.php?tid=20006)
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Pohoiki or Pohiki ? - Ashley - 07-28-2018
Listening to video updates by great local team of Ikaika Marzo ,Philip Ong and others on FB I noticed that they were saying "Pohiki" all the time.
Is Pohiki the real Hawaiian name and Pohoiki just americanized variant?
RE: Pohoiki or Pohiki ? - ironyak - 07-28-2018
Hawaiian pronunciation is not my strong suit, but it is Pohoiki, which when pronounced quickly tends to sound close to Pohiki. Probably something similar to Kea'au, which should be pronounced kay-ah-ow, but it is commonly pronounced kay-ow.
(Those more in the know, feel free to correct as needed)
RE: Pohoiki or Pohiki ? - rainyjim - 07-28-2018
So there really isn’t a firm authority in Hawaiian language - being the chief issue. I would take the Hawaiian studies department at UH as the authority but it seems their preferences in pronunciation often conflict with many of the original and secondary sources (which they use in their classes).
That’s not to take away from what Ironyak mentioned it is PO Ho IKI, not POH Iki...
But yeah it’s okay to be confused you can say it any way possible right or wrong and locals will still smirk at you and correct your pronunciation if they suspect you aren’t from Hawaii and ultimately it’s about to be completely englufed in lava and just become a memory so who really cares.
RE: Pohoiki or Pohiki ? - Ashley - 07-28-2018
Thank you for the explanation.I just want to add that the word was pronounced slowly.
And it is not only the pronounciation but also the spelling.Just google "Pohiki".
RE: Pohoiki or Pohiki ? - bananahead - 07-29-2018
the first is spelled right.... the 2nd is spelled like most newbie Punatics do it... but its wrong...
its Po-Ho-Iki
ps Kehena has an 'e' as well... not Kahena...
but then again, before Hiram Bingham came around ca1825... Mauna Loa was Mauna Roa, Hilo was Ohido or Hido, Puna was Poona, Kau was Kaoo, Hawaii was Owhyhee, Kauai was Atooi, Maui was Mowee, Kamehameha was Tameamea or Tamehameha, Liholiho was RhioRhio, etc. actually Kamehameha's name was never spelled with a 'K' in his lifetime... it was always w/ a 'T'
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save our indigenous and endemic Hawaiian Plants... learn about them, grow them, and plant them on your property, ....instead of all that invasive non-native garbage I see in most yards... aloha
RE: Pohoiki or Pohiki ? - bananahead - 07-29-2018
on a related topic,,,, 200+ yrs ago, Hawaii was phonetically spelled "Owhyhee'... it was spelled this way for over 50 yrs from ca1779-1830s.. what happened to that kooky 'V' sound of the 'W' when it falls after an 'a' within a word???....
hmmmm??
common sense says..... if a local guy from 1798 call this island 'Owhyhee'. it should still be pronounced that way today... Ha Wai I
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save our indigenous and endemic Hawaiian Plants... learn about them, grow them, and plant them on your property, ....instead of all that invasive non-native garbage I see in most yards... aloha
RE: Pohoiki or Pohiki ? - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-29-2018
if a local guy from 1798 call this island 'Owhyhee'. it should still be pronounced that way today...
Don’t you think that in the same way the mainland has regional dialects and pronunciations of words, that the individual islands would also exhibit differences in how words and place names were spoken? Especially before or around the time the islands were “united?” Each island had their own chief, or chiefs for different areas of an island, with some common rules, customs, and manner of speaking, as well as cultural expressions unique to their tribe.
The place name Hawaii was most likely pronounced many different ways depending on whether you spoke with someone from Eastern Big Island, Waikiki on Oahu, or remote north shore Kauai.
“Generalized intelligence and mental alertness are the most powerful enemies of dictatorship and at the same time the basic conditions of effective democracy.” - Aldous Huxley
RE: Pohoiki or Pohiki ? - Carey - 07-29-2018
Both names are used in writing it out, but maps & roads have the version "Poho`iki", & that is how Ikaika, Philip & John spell it on their written notes..
Some fisherman, including Bolos, have used "Pohiki" on things like tournaments... Have even seen both spellings on older maps...
Checking to definitions, poho`iki is the more likely version, could even have a kahako on the second o...
poho is a hallowed out area (like in a canoe), polo kai hallow where sea remains at low tide
poh[o] [o] with kahako can be a marsh or swamp (like around dead trees)
iki is small
The other spelling would not be as common a grouping
P[o] is the realm of the night, darkness, spirits (with Kahako)
Hiki is able...
RE: Pohoiki or Pohiki ? - Ashley - 07-30-2018
Wow!I felt like I was reading encyclopedia!Thank you, Carey.
You are amazing!
RE: Pohoiki or Pohiki ? - Carey - 07-30-2018
HOTPE - even the meanings of very common names, with variation, can be very different - I have seen heated debates on the "proper" way of spelling... esp with diacritical marks...something that was not even added to the spelling of Hawaiian words until almost 3/4 century after spelling Hawaiian words started (Owhyee was commonly used before trained phonetic writers came to the islands, so that spelling is more likely a loose "best guess" more than a trained ear phonetic spelling.)
It should be noted that the same area could have 2 very different regional names, that are very close phonetically...
One of the ones I hear argued most about is our own Halemaumau or Halema`uma`u
Both have been used since diacriticals have been around, and more interesting, BOTH definitions have been used since it was first written about by Ellis as a place that the locals (from Kau) referred to as the house of Pele, burning from "time immemorial, or, in their words `mai ka po mai`" This would support the non-diacritical Halemaumau, but others noted that from Puna, the reference of the House of the Ama`u fern...
So... perspective is very important when trying to establish a "correct" term ... add to that the interplay of early writings with K/T`s and L/R`s... & it gets kinda hairy making the "this is the correct way to spell" a language that, for the most part, had been regionalized by district & an unwritten language for millennia...the best thing is to realize that it is not a stagnant, dead static language & to actually enjoy the many tones & flavors the words can have...