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+--- Thread: 2018 Kauai Hanalei Valley Flood vs Puna Lava Flow (/showthread.php?tid=20814)
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2018 Kauai Hanalei Valley Flood vs Puna Lava Flow - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 04-07-2019
Last year the Hanalei Valley on Kauai received 50 inches of rain in one day. Homes and livestock were washed out to sea, the roads were destroyed, buffalo stood dazed and confused on the beach.
NBC has a good story about their recovery efforts. Their road was repaired for $90 million so residents could quickly gain access and return to their property. Initially it appeared not enough homes were damaged to meet FEMA's threshold for assistance, so Gov. Ige stepped in and added some damaged Oahu homes in the "revised" total.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/one-year-after-historic-floods-kauai-residents-cautiously-rebuild-n987696
It's a story of survival, and triumph over adversity, but it also has me thinking, what is the difference between the recovery efforts on Kauai and those in Puna after the lava flow? Why was their road immediately repaired? Why was there no discussion that perhaps landowners in the Hanalei Valley shouldn't be allowed to rebuild? Isn't it likely a major flood will again occur in the Hanalei Valley, as it did when Hurricane Lane drenched them later in the year? I don't know statistically which is more likely, another lava flow in Puna, or a flood on Kauai, but both are bound to happen.
What provided the urgency for road repairs on Kauai? Why do Hanalei Valley residents need access faster than Puna residents, who also have farms, crops, and homes?
If it isn't wise to rebuild in the LERZ as some have suggested, and Hawaii County drags it feet month after month dawdling, why is it the smart decision, the right decision to allow Kauai residents to quickly rebuild in a recurring flood zone?
What's the difference?
RE: 2018 Kauai Hanalei Valley Flood vs Puna Lava Flow - Chunkster - 04-07-2019
"What's the difference."
Surely this is a rhetorical question, but I'll give the obvious answers.
Hanalei valley has more moneyed interests than Puna.
Kauai doesn't have Harry Kim for a mayor.
Kauai has more money than Puna.
Kauai, despite being in Hawaii, would seem to have a legislative delegation and county bureaucracy more proficient at extracting funds from both the feds and the state.
Places with more money paradoxically get more financial assistance than poor places that need it more.
RE: 2018 Kauai Hanalei Valley Flood vs Puna Lava Flow - kalakoa - 04-07-2019
Flooding is over relatively quickly. The lava flow "could resume at any time".
RE: 2018 Kauai Hanalei Valley Flood vs Puna Lava Flow - Seeb - 04-07-2019
Harry Kim has been trying to permanently evacuate lower Puna since the Thanksgiving eve breakout flow. His cuz at CD has been doging the response and funding applications on purpose
RE: 2018 Kauai Hanalei Valley Flood vs Puna Lava Flow - kalakoa - 04-07-2019
Harry Kim has been trying to permanently evacuate lower Puna
Again: I could support (and possibly even respect) such a plan if it were officially stated as such, with public debate involving the residents and landowners.
Instead, we're getting "talk story sessions" to "identify needs", following a schedule that's determined by "how long FEMA will keep paying".
Maybe the next Mayor will solve the problem.
RE: 2018 Kauai Hanalei Valley Flood vs Puna Lava Flow - Seeb - 04-07-2019
He said it in the HTH. And added “ those people can go back to where they came from “
RE: 2018 Kauai Hanalei Valley Flood vs Puna Lava Flow - HiloPuna - 04-08-2019
Kauai has only one state Senator. Who happens to be the Senate President. Who, ironically in this case, is sometimes referred to as the BI's 5th Senator ( he has family roots here). Sen. Pres. Ron Kouchi wanted to take care of his island, and since his Mayor didn't get in the way it was fairly easy for him to do this.
He actually got almost twice the $90mm referred to appropriated, just in case. And in fact the remainder was sitting unencumbered and potentially available to the BI as the lava emergency unfolded, but the Mayor dithered. Compounding this was the Senator from Puna was unfortunately President Kouchi's greatest antagonist and therefore the least favored and the weakest advocate of/for Puna.
You may remember a primary issue in the Ruderman vs Illagan campaign was Kouchi supporting Illagan, which Russell took as an insult and a personal challenge. The problem with that was Russell had been telling numerous people he wasn't likely to run, leading Illagan into his ill-fated challenge. The incumbent then changed his mind and decided to seek reelection, seemingly in response to the temerity of the challenger(s). Yes, he then slapped down the upstart and poked his supporter (Kouchi) in the eye.
However when the emergency unfolded there was not only no positive relationship between the district senator and the leadership of the Senate but an going and active antagonism.
Showing how malleable politics are, Russell has since come into the majority fold for the 2019 session and was even given a Chair! But by that point the lava had stopped, hardened, and the emergency gone cold. Now it's another grind....another budgetary "ask" amongst many...and it's the gimlet eyed House leadership calling the shots, hence a fraction of Kauai's appropriation.
All of that said, scraping mud, laying asphalt, and widening watercourses is a lot easier to justify than dealing with 5-30' lava faces, a rift zone that is always on the simmer, and fundamental concerns with the public money's being expended for an impossible to determine public benefit. Compounding this is the Mayors original silliness (greed) followed by either incompetence or fecklessness (lack of meaningful plan) as an ongoing problem.
Any significant opportunity for "cargo cult" appropriations for Puna likely rest with the Federal budget.
RE: 2018 Kauai Hanalei Valley Flood vs Puna Lava Flow - Chunkster - 04-08-2019
" . . . silliness (greed) followed by either incompetence or fecklessness (lack of meaningful plan)"
Harry Kim was guilty of all of the above, and the tone was set when he asked for hundreds of millions of dollars without any indication as to what it would be spent for. Things went downhill fast from there. Harry's retirement can't come too soon, but I shudder to think who we might get next.
Ruderman is zero sum proposition in this situation, and his eye poking, while sometimes amusing and on point, hasn't been helpful overall. Ilagan might have done us more good in this particular situation, but he badly overplayed his hand by running for senator. I know a lot of people who were angry at him, not for opposing Ruderman, but for leaving the council just when he seemed to have started figuring out how to work it.
RE: 2018 Kauai Hanalei Valley Flood vs Puna Lava Flow - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 04-09-2019
Thanks HiloPuna, I appreciate the background details, and info on behind the scenes maneuvering following these events.
Before I moved to Hawaii, I lived in a river valley which flooded on average every 7 years. Disaster level flooding, not high-water-on-the-road for a few days flooding which occurred more frequently. Two towns nearby were moved over the decades as it was easier to relocate than be subjected to the regular damage which occurred.
Having experienced both disasterous floods and several lava flows, I don't view the aftermath of flood or lava flow as substantially different. I know many people, most people would consider the lava flow more dangerous, as during the 2018 eruption every close family member called me regularly trying to get me to leave the island for my safety. Nobody called during the 50+ inches of rain from Hurricane Lane. Lava can really load fear into the human psyche.
So Hanalei Valley vs Puna Lava is part perception, part inclination, ability, and disposition. In Puna, it's sad to say that Harry Kim seems like he's taking the attitude of I-Got-Mine, I-Had-Mine, and if you're a property owner in the LERZ, too bad. I can't help thinking a younger mayor would make a different decision, viewing the situation with greater energy and more of a can do attitude, an inclination to rebuild, and the prospect that residents could enjoy their property as long or longer than some who rebuild in flood zones throughout Hawaii and the mainland.
RE: 2018 Kauai Hanalei Valley Flood vs Puna Lava Flow - MarkD - 04-09-2019
"Having experienced both disasterous floods and several lava flows, I don't view the aftermath of flood or lava flow as substantially different. "
Lava zones vs. flood zone. Now here's a good debate, involving analysis of recurring costs, human and monetary. Nationwide, all sorts of people elect to live in flood zones.
Excerpt: "Since 2015, more than 100 people have died annually because of floods. " https://weather.com/safety/floods/news/2018-11-08-flood-related-deaths-increasing-in-united-states
We should not necessarily conclude that the most dangerous lava areas should never be lived in. But residents should probably bear all the costs, including road building. The low price of real estate in lava zones 1 and 2 (East Hawaii side) is a big inducement to living on lava.