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+--- Thread: Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected (/showthread.php?tid=21181)
Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected - YurtGirl - 09-03-2019
Aloha All,
Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected as of several months ago. This means hot water costs $7,000 or more, and it also makes it impossible for those who need the variance to obtain it.
I put in a call to Dean Masai to dig deeper. Seems some individuals filed a lawsuit because they didn't think the variance should be allowed (Oh how I would love to be able to direct these people's vast energy toward real issues). The judge somehow found in favor of the Plaintiffs and now the Energy Department has had their hands tied in passing any variances.
Digging even further, I read the new law that states that any propane on-demand water heater would have to be UL approved. No problem, right? Wrong.
UL deals with electric appliances. They do not deal with propane. So while the ignition system and other electric components are often UL approved (transformer, relay, wire and conduit), it doesn't seem likely that the UL commission, who don't deal at all with gas or propane appliances, will stick their neck out to say they approve of the whole unit.
Propane water heaters should be held to CSA International ANSI Z21.10.3 Standards for Gas Water Heaters, Volume III, Storage Water Heaters with Input Ratings Above 75,000 Btu/h NOT UL for the entire unit. It is a complete dropped ball and misunderstanding of UL ratings to insist otherwise.
This is paramount to code enforcement saying, "hey, to avoid being sued again, we are going to require catchment systems are UL approved". UL says they'll approve the pump, but the catchment tank is out of their scope. Government says, "Too bad then. No more catchment systems unless UL approves them". :O This needs fixed.
Now in order to change it I'm told by the Energy Department that we would have to talk to the legislators and change the law. Don't you just LOVE red tape? How about instead, some intelligent person high up recognize that the law just states that the heaters have to be UL approved, it doesn't say the entire unity has to be UL approved, so if the only part of the units that can POSSIBLY BE approved is proven approved, shouldn't that be enough???
Arg... Working on it...
Link to the law:
https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0196/HRS_0196-0006_0005.htm
Melissa Fletcher
___________________________
"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
RE: Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected - kalakoa - 09-03-2019
some individuals filed a lawsuit because they didn't think the variance should be allowed
This lawsuit? Which was a direct result of State abusing their own laws?
https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/2019/02/07/hawaii-news/judge-dbedt-must-adhere-to-solar-water-heater-mandate/
The statute was originally enacted 11 years ago, but DBEDT approved — according to Earthjustice “rubber-stamped†— almost all variance requests for gas water heaters, totaling more than 6,500 exemptions to date. Earthjustice said several large subdivision developments on Oahu, including 15,000 total units, were seeking such exemptions in the foreseeable future.
RE: Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected - YurtGirl - 09-03-2019
I didn't get into the lawsuit details yet, Kalakoa, thanks for making that easy though, I'll check it out.
Even if some people were abusing the system and there was a 'rubber stamp' situation going on, that should not mean that the avenue be completely shut down with a bogus translation. What it should mean is that the rubber stamp turn into a system where not everyone get the variance - they need to prove conditions. If they prove conditions, they should be able to get the variance. It was put in there originally for a reason. Now NO variances are even being looked at because NO on demand water heaters can possibly be UL certified, only the electric components in them. See?
Melissa Fletcher
___________________________
"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
RE: Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected - kalakoa - 09-03-2019
NO on demand water heaters can possibly be UL certified
Electric on-demand water heaters exist. Forcing people to HELCO is probably the intent.
RE: Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected - Peter Epperson - 09-03-2019
Installing a solar water heater was one of the best things I ever did. Once the burn of the initial investment cools off you’ll never regret it.
RE: Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected - YurtGirl - 09-03-2019
Kalakoa, Electric on demand does exist. They flatly outlawed, you can catch a breeze off the meter whirring as soon as you turn one on.
Peter, that's great and I've heard good things, but there are some situations where solar hot water is not the best option. Yurt homes are often one. Areas that get 12 feet of rain a year are another. There are likely other reasons as well.
The people granting variances should not be rubber stamping one way or the other, there's a reason for the variance. Now we've gone from granting all to granting none. Neither of those routes are what was intended with the law.
Melissa Fletcher
___________________________
"Make yurts, not war" Bill Coperthwaite, 1973
RE: Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected - Seeb - 09-03-2019
( UL ) will certify anything you pay them to. Go to their site.
There are freestanding solar water heater if the no roof thing is the issue
RE: Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected - randomq - 09-03-2019
Why are they so expensive?
RE: Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected - Peter Epperson - 09-03-2019
They are so expensive because of the permitting and licensed installer fees. My first solar water heater was built from scratch for under $100. Commercial collectors are much better than my original though. The collectors, storage tank, circulating pump and controller aren’t really that expensive. Installing a system isn’t rocket science but to do it legal is gonna cost you.
I live in Hawaiian Acres and it’s a rare day that I don’t have a warm shower. Even on most rainy days.
RE: Solar Hot Water Variances are all being rejected - kalakoa - 09-04-2019
expensive because of the permitting and licensed installer fees
The whole permit-license-fee-inspection regime is a racket.
Especially if you can't opt-out.