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+--- Thread: Wing Wind testing at Natural Energy Lab (/showthread.php?tid=2202)
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Wing Wind testing at Natural Energy Lab - Rob Tucker - 05-25-2008
Fascinating article in the HTH today on a new type of power generation technology which will apparently be testing at the Natural Energy Lab.
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/articles/2008/05/25/local_news/local03.txt
Several times more efficient than propeller type wind generators and, they say, one tenth the cost.....
RE: Wing Wind testing at Natural Energy Lab - oink - 05-25-2008
Sounds interesting. Hope it won't take 20 years to get to the marketplace.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Wing Wind testing at Natural Energy Lab - Guest - 05-25-2008
I'm wondering if the TH article has a few facts wrong.
Inventing things is what Kelley does. Among his many successful creations are rumble strips, the roadside warnings that produce noise and vibration when motorists wander.
When in truth, he only worked on a team that helped develop them:
He was on the research team that developed the "rumble strips" that let drivers know when they're veering off the road.
Also sounds like he is planning on using Hawaii as his "Testing" grounds as it's just in "prototype" phase:
Kelley said W2 is trying to raise from $5 million to $7 million in its first round of financing as it moves from the proof-of-concept prototype to a new WindWing prototype that is larger and more functional with more controls.
The company also is looking for land to lease where it can construct a cluster of three different sizes.....
-------
Lower your expectations and be ready for anything.
RE: Wing Wind testing at Natural Energy Lab - mgeary - 05-25-2008
Yah, good stuff. I wanna buy one.
Aloha! ;-)
RE: Wing Wind testing at Natural Energy Lab - David M - 05-25-2008
Looks very interesting. I'd volunteer my place to be a test site
David
Ninole Resident
Edited to add:
Damon - too many years ago to count, I was part of a "team" that solved a major problem in the auto industry. I say "team" because the solution was my idea and work, my boss got all the pats on the back and atta boys and his name on all the reports, the company got the reward$, and I got... well I haven't worked there in many many a year- too many to count.
RE: Wing Wind testing at Natural Energy Lab - Fishboy - 05-26-2008
Are you guys familiar with the problems faced\created by the propeller-type wind generators? The early models had two profound draw backs: the prop tips generated a horrendous sonic boom as they got up to speed that didn't impress the neighborhood, and there remains a problem with the number of bird splats on the props as they encounter little guys passing through.
Also, consider that a prop wind generator is pushed by wind force in one constant direction against one surface. This WindWing would move up and down with the wind pushing against one surface and then the other. I don't buy the contention that this WindWing would realize the 40-60 percent improvement on the conversion of wind to electricity hypothesized by the inventor, and I also can't grasp how the technology would get past the tendency of the wing to remain in a neutral position; once the wing is pushed up or down by the wind, SOMEthing has to push it past neutral to the opposite position. Assuming the wind speed is constant, it sounds to me like it'd take an equal or greater amount of energy to reset the wing to then take another stroke.
I don't mean to over-analyze this idea, but I would need more information to be convinced it's feasible. What I DO know, though, is that we need to improve wind generation technology toward reducing the problems with propeller-driven technology.
There are also plans for installing propeller-driven electrical generators to harness tidal energy that will have the same problems with fish as land-based installations have with birds. We need energy alternatives, but not at the expense of the local fauna.
Mahalo nui loa,
Brian and Mary
Lynnwood, WA\Discovery Harbour
RE: Wing Wind testing at Natural Energy Lab - mgeary - 05-26-2008
The speed of sound issue can be (and has been) resolved with a brake or governor mechanism to limit the rate of rotation. As long as the governor works properly, no sonic boom.
Regarding the bird strikes, I dunno. There is no source of energy which is perfect, harming nothing, creating no waste. It's a matter of values as to which source of energy to use, i.e. which source of energy is most appropriate for each of the various places all across the globe. What may be appropriate in one place may not be ideal in another location. Just my opinion, but for a place which is fortunate enough to have the most active volcano in the world on it's doorstep, I'd think geothermal would be pretty appropriate for most of Hawaii's energy needs.
Fossil fuel seems, to me, to be pretty far down the scale of most appropriate energy sources in most applications, particularly for the purpose of generating electricity.
Aloha! ;-)
RE: Wing Wind testing at Natural Energy Lab - gtill - 06-01-2008
Truly a great invention if it pans out, and I hope it does. But if it gets on the grid, it won't help us a lick but Helco will be cashing in from the start.
RE: Wing Wind testing at Natural Energy Lab - MarkP - 06-01-2008
Years ago my father and I found an old WinCharger 12 volt wind turbine for sale, bought it, and mounted it on the roof of the garage. We learned alot about wind power, like that there isn't much of it at rooftop level on a consistant basis, that wind turbines are high maintenance, that they shake the house, that the blades are almost always turning but only for a relatively small percentage of the time do they make serious energy, and that the general public does not understand any of this. We didn't know it either until we lived with a wind turbine for a couple of years. The turbine would send a hum through the house when it was under load. Every now and then when the wind got really strong it would generate so much power that it would pop the circuit breaker and run wild without any load. A couple of air brakes would extend by centrifugal force keeping the speed of the turbine just below that at which it would fly off the roof but of course much faster than normal speed. Usually during wiind storms the air was turbulent and the turbine would swing wildly. It was at these times that it would sound like a helicopter. It would shake the whole house until you jumped out of bed and ran outside in the snow in your underwear to haul on a cable that applied a manual brake. In all that time we never had evidence of a bird strike.
Proper site location is essential for a functional wind turbine. Most people don't live where there is enough wind or smooth enough wind. People would stop at our house to ask about the windmill and would say they want to get off the grid. No way we could have done that with the wind we had or at least the wind turbine/tower we had. We hooked it up to a water heater with a 9 volt heater element and it would preheat water for us. Sometimes the water would get up over 100 degrees F. Of course we had only a crummy 400 watt turbine and it was at rooftop level. The secret is in putting the turbine where the wind is, usually very high above the ground. It would have been difficult to do that on our 1 acre property and still keep the tower short enough so that it wouldn't fall on the neighbors if it did fall, which is the law in my parent's neck of the woods.
When I read about wind turbines on the internet the topic of vertical axis turbins eventually comes up. Two claims are usually made, that because they rotate about a vertical axis the blades don't present as much of a hazard and therefore you don't need a high tower, and that the vertical blades somehow look more solid so birds won't fly into them. Well, my folks have a pool in their back yard so I guess I was wasting my time fishing in the lake, and if the geniuses that think the point of a 150' tower was to keep a 6' tall person from hitting their head dont find any dead birds under their vertical axis turbine they should know we didn't find any under our horizontal axis turbine.
Moral: Burning fossil fuels makes life very, very, very easy, more easy than even I know and I lived with a wind turbine mounted to the roof. Most of us and I include myself are quite naiive about what it really takes to make alternative energy work and it is very easy for misinformation to slip in and get accepted as fact. As far as I can tell from my reading and experience, small turbines do not pose a significant bird strike hazard. Large turbines might for the same reasons that people misjudge the speed of trains, that big things look like they are moving slowly in proportion to their length. Even so I think that the bird strike thing is much more significant as an emotional thing on the internet than it is in real life. I say this not because I know how many bird strikes occur but because I do know how many people would knock on our door in a dead calm and want to know how much power the turbine was producing. There is a sincere desire to believe in certain things and no number of awkward facts can dampen that spirit.
Wind turbines have their place. If there is enough wind energy present to harvest comfortably the average person would describe that place as very windy all the time, like South Point and Upolu Point. The exact turbine design won't make much difference.
RE: Wing Wind testing at Natural Energy Lab - Carolann R - 06-01-2008
Hey Rob, Tony's been talking about this technology since he read it in the newspaper...we're wondering when we'll see some of these ideas put to use here...wave energy; seawater cooling/heating (like they are planning for Oahu), etc.
I don't know if you caught it on the Nat Geo channel today, but there was a great program regarding this exact type of wind power facilitation...
We are prime for these applications here in Hawaii!! Waves, wind, sun...
They even showed mirrors reflecting to a single point which turned the heat to steam, then power, etc...just perfect for Kona side.
Carrie
http://www.carrierojo.etsy.com
http://www.vintageandvelvet.blogspot.com
"Freedom has a scent like the top of a newborn baby's head..." U2