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+--- Thread: Good news for Puna makai alternate road? (/showthread.php?tid=23118)
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Good news for Puna makai alternate road? - Durian Fiend - 07-25-2023
Ruderman seems to think so.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2023/07/russell-ruderman-finally-some-good-news-for-puna-residents/?fbclid=IwAR34KcbnIOqaEJkV7FcLgR-UkFYWwaHYwxBZWr0O3rzZYg623pYPz3DupyY
RE: Good news for Puna makai alternate road? - dobanion - 07-25-2023
Right after they finish rebuilding Pohoiki Rd and dredging the boat launch.
RE: Good news for Puna makai alternate road? - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-25-2023
It is more positive than Shipman's stance over the last few decades. But it still contains mixed messages:
But now, there’s some hope that Shipman might be backing down from its historic opposition.
When I (Russel Ruderman) asked Shipman for comment for this column, Peggy Farias, president of W.H. Shipman, responded in part:
The positive:
“Should the State and/or County decide to move forward with design and construction, W.H. Shipman, Limited will work with them to find an alignment that minimizes the negative impacts on our neighbors and farmers,” she wrote in an email.
Pointing the finger in another direction:
“Solutions that reduce the number of cars on the road will, in the long term, be more effective than building another road,” she said. “Some of these solutions include improving public transportation, and focusing on development that brings jobs, services, and housing closer together.”
I believe Russell is a bike rider, and could definitely give me a run for my money in a race:
As a bike route, like Rails-to-Trails projects nationwide, it would provide much needed recreational and commuting options, removing cars from the road. Hilo would then be a 20 minute, mostly level, beautiful bike ride from Hawaiian Paradise Park
It would be a beautiful ride, and I certainly wouldn't mind taking my time through the hala trees and banyans along the Paki Bay shoreline heading north into Hilo.
RE: Good news for Puna makai alternate road? - dobanion - 07-25-2023
That would be a nice bike ride, no doubt.
RE: Good news for Puna makai alternate road? - MyManao - 07-25-2023
(07-25-2023, 10:48 PM)dobanion Wrote: That would be a nice bike ride, no doubt.
Actually there's no definitive route shown in the Ruderman article, just a reference to a map in the original Puna Community Development Plan, which shows a few alternatives.
Interestingly, on that map, is the old Hilo/Puna Trail (which isn't mapped right but hey), which I'd put forth as the most logical. Of course whatever route decided would have a lot to do with whatever Shipman's plans for the future are. Since this change in stance by them can only mean they have developed plans for subdivisions in the area and a road is what they need to get started, I imagine the'd rather keep that lower route for upscale homes, while promoting a more mauka path under the guise of it being more practical.
The thing is, the Puna Trail, since it is a documented route that was in existence before and after the fall of the Kingdom, is grandfathered into law, and should be a fairly easy sell in the courts. Whereas I doubt they can get the same over the alternatives. And, of course, it'd be fun to see Shipman squirm if they had to give up their exclusive control over the coast.
And still.. I suspect many of us will be dead and gone long before anything actually happens.
RE: Good news for Puna makai alternate road? - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 07-26-2023
the Puna Trail, since it is a documented route that was in existence before and after the fall of the Kingdom, is grandfathered into law,
A little background reading:
THE HISTORIC PUNA TRAIL – OLD GOVERNMENT ROAD (KEA‘AU SECTION)
ARCHIVAL-HISTORICAL DOCUMENTARY RESEARCH, ORAL HISTORY AND CONSULTATION STUDY, AND
LIMITED SITE PRESERVATION PLAN
Ahupua‘a of Kea‘au
Puna District, Island of Hawai‘i
https://www.kumupono.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/1999_01_11_Keaau-Kapoho-Puna-Hawaii-Alanui-Aupuni.pdf
RE: Good news for Puna makai alternate road? - Obie - 07-26-2023
The nimby's in HPP are already making their voices heard about using Railroad so I'm thinking that would be a nogo.
The Puna trail goes right thru some very high end property and doesn't follow any existing roads so that would be out too.
Even though Shipman seems open to allowing a road the folks living in the adjacent Hawaiian Homelands aren't so the road can't reach Hilo.
RE: Good news for Puna makai alternate road? - MyManao - 07-26-2023
(07-26-2023, 12:33 PM)Obie Wrote: folks living in the adjacent Hawaiian Homelands aren't so the road can't reach Hilo.
Although the Highways Act of 1892 guarantees access that supersedes any other claims, the Hilo/Puna Trail doesn't pass through Hawaiian Homelands. Of course there are trails that do, but the long established Trail does not follow the coast all the way around Keaukaha, or pass through other Homestead lands as mapped here.
Of course there are questions, lots of them, that could limit the right-of-way they can not nullify it, and regardless of land use today the right remains. As such, as I noted in an earlier post, the mountains of precedent would make any claim at nullifying the right-of-way ultimately fail.
RE: Good news for Puna makai alternate road? - ChunksterK - 07-26-2023
Ten or twelve years ago I attended several meetings about PMAR held by an HPP committee. (I believe Fay Hanohano was trying to get planning funding for it at the time.) There were really only two things that were made clear by the officials who showed up. One was that Railroad was not an appropriate choice because it meanders across the subdivision intersecting other roads at least seven times. The other was that the state DOT master plan did NOT include such a route, and AFAIK it still does not include it. Federal funding almost always has the state DOT as a gatekeeper. Can anyone see the county coughing up all the money for a road to Puna?
The Hawaii DOT has no qualms whatsoever about populated areas with "one way in, one way out" road connections. I just read Ruderman's piece on Civil Beat, and the comments listed several other areas in that situation with a better shot at getting funded than Puna. Advocatiing for the competion of the expansion of 130 might be a better effort. At least that one is in the master plan, but stalled due to a "moratorium on capacity expansion projects, " something likely easier to change than starting a whole new project.
One last thing. Having observed the DOT officials' presentations and asked them questions on more than one occasion, I have to say that they came across as neither particularly smart nor flexible.
RE: Good news for Puna makai alternate road? - AaronM - 07-26-2023
This bullshit County can't figure out what to do with any roads, so this entire conversation is moot. Ruderman and Farias can sound as positive as they want but my bike riding days will be long gone by the time they complete any bicycle friendly PMAR.
Let's start a pool - I'll put my money on 2053 but it'll have to be an IOU...