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+--- Thread: Insurance, the Law, and Government's Purpose in the Mess (/showthread.php?tid=23417)
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Insurance, the Law, and Government's Purpose in the Mess - BlackAkita - 09-01-2024
I don't usually read legal essays, since law is a challenging subject shrouded in technical interpretations, money and emotion. This article pulls no punches in the adjudication challenges of payout decisions.
https://www.mwl-law.com/why-molten-lava-and-insurance-dont-mix/
Quote:To expect the insurance industry to simply provide a safety net for what might aptly be called a “pre-existing condition” is counterintuitive to the concept of insurance itself. To “insure” means to “arrange for compensation in the event of future damage or loss and secure against a possible contingency in the future.” When the contingency is a certainty, it stops being insurance and veers wildly outside of the economic system we know as “free enterprise.”The law firm that posted the article on its website has far more experience in contesting or fighting for complainants. When liability is concerned, they might have to deal with two ends of the court process. I don't have a stake in the real estate market in Puna, at least yet. I wonder if the cost of insuring a property will drive me to the poor house, and even whether the lack of liability insurance will nail me in "Better Call Saul" lawsuit for slip and fall. How many Punaweb members hold titles to second homes in the area, and how are you dealing with obtaining personal liability insurance? One agent tells me that HPIA is the cause of liability insurance not being possible to buy.
RE: Insurance, the Law, and Government's Purpose in the Mess - Durian Fiend - 09-01-2024
(09-01-2024, 05:57 AM)BlackAkita Wrote: how are you dealing with obtaining personal liability insurance?To paraphrase Linus Pauling, I don't have personal liability insurance, have never had it and have never been with involved it.
RE: Insurance, the Law, and Government's Purpose in the Mess - BlackAkita - 09-02-2024
Personal liability insurance is normally included in a homeowner insurance policy, except in certain cases, with the most annoying omission being the redlining of some properties in Puna. This link provides a simple definition of Personal liability insurance.
https://www.fool.com/the-ascent/insurance/homeowners/personal-liability-home-insurance/
Quote:Personal liability insurance protects a homeowner's assets. It does this by paying for losses a property owner is responsible for. A property owner is generally responsible for losses if someone is injured on their property. Personal liability home insurance also covers losses caused by a property owner's pets.
The big island has quite a few tort lawyers, some of whom specialize as ambulance chasers. They seek out "victims" of deep-pocketed companies or individuals. I can only hypothesize that insurers have experienced lawsuits by people who feel that a lava burst that hit a neighbor's house jumped off the neighbor's roof and set the plaintiff's home on fire. Or, Pahoa residents own too many pit bulls who bite trespassers.
To the unfortunate victims who live in Lava zone 1 and 2, I feel your pain. When an insurance broker hears that I wish to insure a home in those areas, they treat me like a leper.
Quote:Paraphrasing a Dirty Harry quote, “Homeowner, You've got to ask yourself one question; 'Do I feel lucky without liability insurance?' "Too bad, you ain't getting any insurance."
RE: Insurance, the Law, and Government's Purpose in the Mess - leilanidude - 09-03-2024
LZ1 here in Leilani and we have a large personal liability policy through the insurer. Not sure why you think it isn't availble due to lava zone designation?
RE: Insurance, the Law, and Government's Purpose in the Mess - BlackAkita - 09-03-2024
(09-03-2024, 07:03 PM)leilanidude Wrote: LZ1 here in Leilani and we have a large personal liability policy through the insurer. Not sure why you think it isn't available due to lava zone designation?We are trying to find out from various insurance brokers. The wife is having Atlas Insurance investigate potential underwriting sources. Was your personal liability insurance acquired years ago, before the Kilauea explosion in 2018? Are you the owner occupant of the home, in addition to the signee on the mortgage loan? Possibly, 2024 could be the year where insurance companies are suddenly reducing coverages to any areas (e.g., Pahoa LZ1/2 and Maui) they consider to be a high risk???
The whispers from the big insurers is to buy a home in LZ3 or better, or Hilo, but stay away from the water.
RE: Insurance, the Law, and Government's Purpose in the Mess - achutch3 - 09-03-2024
(09-03-2024, 11:01 PM)BlackAkita Wrote:Those aren’t whispers. Home insurance is lower outside LZ1/LZ2 and flood/tsunami zones. Can look up flood and tsunami zone maps. If I’m not mistaken the tsunami zone in HPP is 3rd and down.(09-03-2024, 07:03 PM)leilanidude Wrote: LZ1 here in Leilani and we have a large personal liability policy through the insurer. Not sure why you think it isn't available due to lava zone designation?We are trying to find out from various insurance brokers. The wife is having Atlas Insurance investigate potential underwriting sources. Was your personal liability insurance acquired years ago, before the Kilauea explosion in 2018? Are you the owner occupant of the home, in addition to the signee on the mortgage loan? Possibly, 2024 could be the year where insurance companies are suddenly reducing coverages to any areas (e.g., Pahoa LZ1/2 and Maui) they consider to be a high risk???
The whispers from the big insurers is to buy a home in LZ3 or better, or Hilo, but stay away from the water.
RE: Insurance, the Law, and Government's Purpose in the Mess - leilanidude - 09-04-2024
(09-03-2024, 11:01 PM)BlackAkita Wrote:(09-03-2024, 07:03 PM)leilanidude Wrote: LZ1 here in Leilani and we have a large personal liability policy through the insurer. Not sure why you think it isn't available due to lava zone designation?We are trying to find out from various insurance brokers. The wife is having Atlas Insurance investigate potential underwriting sources. Was your personal liability insurance acquired years ago, before the Kilauea explosion in 2018? Are you the owner occupant of the home, in addition to the signee on the mortgage loan? Possibly, 2024 could be the year where insurance companies are suddenly reducing coverages to any areas (e.g., Pahoa LZ1/2 and Maui) they consider to be a high risk???
The whispers from the big insurers is to buy a home in LZ3 or better, or Hilo, but stay away from the water.
I had Lloyd's before the eruption.
Was able to get coverage from another company during a short window in which they opened up coverage, in late 2019. Pricing is surprisingly low for about $500k property and $1 mil personal liability. Owner/occupant although I am not there 100% myself. I split time between a house in South Florida and one in Texas, too. Two sons live in the house otherwise, so it is occupied, not sitting empty. Believe me, I won't be filing a claim for anything less than full destruction of the house - quite aware that I would probably be cancelled if I did...
RE: Insurance, the Law, and Government's Purpose in the Mess - BlackAkita - 09-05-2024
Wife told me not to give up. She tell me, "You lazy old man, you not as smart as Charlie Chan, you fewl." After calling numerous agents, she found a psych major from Noguchi Associates who told her it was possible to write a personal liability policy. Hope this helps others who may be looking for the same thing. "Pele wants me on the Big Island." I dunno why. I'm pretty bad at soccer. I was almost ready to call it quits.
RE: Insurance, the Law, and Government's Purpose in the Mess - HiloJulie - 09-05-2024
Not trying to be rude or nosy, but I’m trying to understand your seeming infatuation with personal liability insurance?
Any typical home owner insurance policy will have some form of personal liability coverage built into the policy that can also be increased with the addition of an umbrella policy. Same with auto insurance policies.
However, a strict personal liability only insurance policy does not cover your home burning down or theft or a tree toppling into it.
Granted, having a swimming pool, trampoline etc that others may use that could result in injury or your tree falling into your neighbors house would be covered under a personal liability policy at a higher cost, but I’m just trying to understand your focus on personal liability insurance over that of all the other more important insurance coverages needed for home ownership/rental and/or automobile insurance.
RE: Insurance, the Law, and Government's Purpose in the Mess - kalianna - 09-05-2024
"Pele wants me on the Big Island." Who are you quoting?