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+--- Thread: Trail cams for security (/showthread.php?tid=23622)
Trail cams for security - knieft - 04-20-2025
Aloha all,
After 28 years we finally had a visit from ag thieves…a bunch of durian and the first mangosteens to set.
Wondering if anyone has experience using trail/game cameras to at least have look at any intrusions.
So many kinds available with so many options, and few without 5-12% 1 star reviews regardless of price or fancy features.
Anyone actually using these devices as security on their parcel? Useful? Or do they just get stolen along with the fruit?
Cheers,
Kirt
RE: Trail cams for security - kalianna - 04-20-2025
Oh noooo!!! Not the mangosteens!!! So sad this happened to you. You may want to set Durian Fiend on them.
RE: Trail cams for security - Punatang - 04-20-2025
Very sorry that happened to you and that there are people among us that do that. We just got hit too and have never had anything even remotely like that happen in Hawaii. We have people stop and ask for things constantly and we always say yes. We are considering the same options for security. In your case, if they steal durians, I would think a basic scarecrow might fool them.
Sorry DF but that was low hanging fruit.
RE: Trail cams for security - TomK - 04-21-2025
Kirt - No suggestions for trail cams, but solar-powered lights might be an option and probably less expensive. No criminal wants the light shed on them. Years ago, our little neighborhood had a methhead who "rented" the house next to me, and for the following two or three years, we set up a bunch of solar-powered lights with motion sensors because we had so many problems - I posted about them in the past. This was near a dead-end dirt road, so my other neighbors and I just bought a bunch of them and put them on the trees along the end of the road. Anyone driving or walking down that road was met with lights suddenly turning on, pointing in their direction.
The one I installed on my front porch still works today. I don't recall the model, and I'm sure it's discontinued now, but this is similar:
https://shorturl.at/49uw6
RE: Trail cams for security - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 04-21-2025
Cameras - most thieves wear long pants, and hoodies to cover identifying tattoos. They look down so the camera won’t catch their face. Dummy cameras are cheaper and just as effective if you post signage.
Motion lights - I’ve had mixed results. Probably best on the perimeter of your property to keep them out. Otherwise once they’re near your trees or house the crooks just look appreciative that they can see where they’re going.
Audible alarms - most effective for me. They don’t have to be loud, but it’s the only thing that I’ve seen actually made thieves run.
Are you in HPP? I think the association has a few that they’ll loan out for you to try.
RE: Trail cams for security - TomK - 04-21-2025
I suspect part of the decision on what to do depends on your location and local neighborhood. For us, at the end of a dead-end road, the motion-activated lights worked really well because a potential trespasser had no option but to return the way they came if the lights spooked them.
RE: Trail cams for security - Durian Fiend - 04-21-2025
Sorry to hear this. It seems like an odd time of year for ripe durian or mangosteen. Did the thieves really get anything of value?
Good suggestions above. Ag theft really sucks. This subject comes up in the HTFG group once in awhile. It's really difficult to stop.
Got fences, dogs, guards posted with shotguns? Cameras seem to be of little to no value unless you can get a video of the perpetrators, stolen fruit and license plate of get away vehicle.
RE: Trail cams for security - HereOnThePrimalEdge - 04-21-2025
A couple of other notes:
If you decide to use both cameras and motion lights, when a motion light is triggered it can also help the camera detect the change/motion from a greater distance than the camera alone would from movement by the thief. Many cameras can send you a notification when this occurs. I’ve stopped looking at these notifications though, as they are usually a palm frond or cat. Some cameras are better than others in using AI to detect whether the shape is a person.
Motion lights only help during daylight hours. If the thief arrives early morning, daytime, evening it has no affect.
RE: Trail cams for security - knieft - 04-22-2025
(04-21-2025, 05:19 PM)HereOnThePrimalEdge Wrote: A couple of other notes:
...
Many cameras can send you a notification when this occurs. I’ve stopped looking at these notifications though, as they are usually a palm frond or cat. Some cameras are better than others in using AI to detect whether the shape is a person.
...
Sounds like another reason it may not be worthwhile.
Thanks for the feedback from posters. It feels like I should do _something_ beyond letting the thieves come regularly unhindered. I'm a fan of "stupid and futile gestures" and so will likely move forward on some sort of deterrent. I worry, of course, that the house is next. This is a six acre property, so I will likely use a mix of trail cams and old Eufy cams (because they work with HomeKit) facing out from the house, and perhaps using an old iPhone SE and iPod touch as cams as well. The priority being no subscriptions and some redundancy.
Will see how it goes, and thanks again for the responses!
Cheers,
Kirt
RE: Trail cams for security - terracore - 04-23-2025
I've used game and security cameras both personally and professionally. You can find models loaded with features and at a low price now. Both are available as truly wireless- wifi or cell for communication and solar/batteries for power. They can run 365 days a year even if there is infrequent direct sun. If no wifi or cell capability, you'll have to collect the video by visiting the camera and swapping the SD card. The price difference between a camera capable of communication and one that isn't is insignificant now, likewise, fixed focus security cameras aren't substantially cheaper than ones that can tilt and pan.
The only real difference between a "game camera" and a wireless security camera anymore is that the game cameras are designed to be hidden and have a more rugged design. Low profile, camo colors, etc. They usually don't have features like pan/tilt/zoom (PTZ (usually digital zoom in my price range)) . They might have features that are more stealthy like invisible IR lights or software that is better at detecting animals. Security cameras usually come with both IR and flood lights and let the user decide how to configure them. If you're on a ladder installing a game camera and accidentally drop it, it will probably be okay. A security camera might not. I quit using game cameras a long time ago so mostly the rest of this is about PTZ security cameras.
Either type should be able to push a notification to you when it detects somebody if there is wifi or cell access to the area and the model supports communication. Security cameras allow the user to "look around" the area remotely by moving the camera whereas most game cameras have a fixed focus. Most send a photo and/or a short video with the push notification. A mediocre or better model should have some ability to differentiate between a human/animal and random movement like wind blowing vegetation around, but false alarms are always possible. Any of the communication capable models have the option to save the video in the cloud if you're worried about the camera with the SD card inside getting stolen. Some will come with a few seconds per detection of cloud video for free, but if you want all the data on the cloud it requires a subscription.
Solar wifi models start at $20. Cell models start at $40-$50 and include a SIM card that will work on the 3 major carriers. Some only work on 2 carriers (usually Verizon is left out). They usually come with 2-7 days of free service, after which you'll have to pay $10-$20/month per camera for 4G service. Most of the LTE cameras will choose the strongest carrier signal when it's powered up, so if you move the camera and power it up again, it will switch to a different carrier if the cell signal is different at the new location.
Solar powered cameras are motion (or remotely) activated. That means they don't record 24/7 because they conserve battery life by putting all the circuits to sleep except the motion detection until they are needed. Some of the better ones will record 24/7 until the battery drops below a certain threshold and then switch to motion-only recording, but will go back to 24/7 when the sun comes out and tops off the battery. Frequently the features of the cameras aren't clearly visible in the listings and you have to find out about them in the reviews or after you get the camera (Amazon has a generous return policy). They also add features over time via firmware updates, so some of the older (usually negative) reviews aren't always accurate.
If it's a communication capable camera it will require an app on your phone. If you plan on having multiple cameras or think you may add cameras in the future, be aware that each manufacturer is going to have their own app. You probably don't want multiple cameras each with their own app, it's preferable to access all of the cameras from a single app. So in a way you are buying into an ecosystem if you want single-app access. This is harder to do with the budget stuff I buy. Most of the camera manufacturers buy components from somewhere else and some of those work with a specific app, so sometimes there are different brand names that use the same app because they share common "guts" in the camera.
Some of the LTE cameras are dumped on the market cheap because they really want to make money on recurring LTE fees, sort of like printer companies making money off of ink instead of printers. Check the reviews... $10-$12/month is a good price to pay for such a service, but does it require pre-paying 2 years of service in advance? A lot of these cameras might not last 2 years so go for an inexpensive month-to-month price if you need LTE service.
Some cameras are capable of tracking- if they detect a person they will follow it around, recording it the entire time. Or maybe a moth gets too close to the IR lights at night, confuses the camera, and it starts following the moth around while people are stealing your stuff from where you originally had the camera pointed. The point here is to get enough cameras to cover the areas you need covered and don't expect a single camera's tracking feature to work against Murphy's Law.
Cameras don't usually come with SD cards (micro SD cards to be more specific) because they are an added cost and also they want you to buy their cloud subscription. So consider that in your pricing. You will need a quality name-brand micro SD card for recording HD video. Even name brand cards are cheap nowadays. Most solar cameras will take up to 128GB cards which realistically might last a year or longer before starting to overwrite the oldest videos because mostly they are recording a bunch of false alarms and the better the camera is configured, the fewer false alarms there will be.