+- Punaweb Forum (http://punaweb.org/forum)
+-- Forum: Punaweb Forums (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Punatalk (http://punaweb.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Thread: Thirty Meter Telescope (/showthread.php?tid=2565)
Thirty Meter Telescope - oink - 08-31-2008
I was reading the article in the HTH Group will fight telescope. The astronomy programs seem like a wonderful idea. It seems to be clean industry. It encourages the continued development of advanced educational institutions (clean jobs). It encourages restraint on light pollution. The construction would be of benefit to under under employed construction industry. Although creating an expanded presence on Mauna Kea, I wouldn't think it would be considered disrespectful to native Hawaiians. I would think a scientific / educational facility would impart a respectful atmosphere. The article states that there are no religious considerations at the Chilean site. I would imagine it's more a case that the local Indians don't have a voice or they are thankful at the prospect of any job opportunities. I'm certainly not a native Hawaiian. Perhaps someone can explain to me why there would be such a strong objection, especially as there are already facilities on the site.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Thirty Meter Telescope - Guest - 08-31-2008
quote:
Originally posted by oink
....I wouldn't think it would be considered disrespectful to native Hawaiians....
Big Islander to be.
So much to learn... so little time.
I think we might seeing Gumapac surface on this thread at somepoint [^]
-------
Glob
RE: Thirty Meter Telescope - macuu222 - 08-31-2008
Sounds like the telescope people didn't bribe the right native group.
They already have a ton of scopes up there...Whats one more going to hurt? In fact.... it's so crowded up there....I'm just wondering where they're planning on putting it!
RE: Thirty Meter Telescope - Menehune - 08-31-2008
The following explains where it will go - info. from various sources :
"Mauna Kea, white mountain, home to the Hawaiian goddess of ice, Poliahu, has become the most important astronomical site in the world."
"The Observatories at Mauna Kea, (MKO), are an independent collection of astronomical research facilities, located on the summit of Mauna Kea on the Big Island of Hawai'i, USA. The facilities are located in a 500-acre special land use zone known as the "Astronomy Precinct," which is located in the Mauna Kea Science Reserve. The Astronomy Precinct was established in 1967. The University of Hawai'i manages the site and leases land to several multi-national facilities which have invested more than $2 billion dollars in science and technology. The Astronomy Precinct is located on land protected by the Historical Preservation Act for its significance to Hawaiian culture. The Hawaiian creation chant tells the story of Mauna Kea as progenitor of the Hawaiian people. The altitude and isolation in the middle of the Pacific Ocean makes Mauna Kea one of the best locations on earth for ground-based astronomy."
"The proposed work involves the construction and operation of an optical/infrared telescope on an estimated four acres of presently undeveloped land within the 525-acre Astronomy Precinct of the Science Reserve near the top of Mauna Kea. The Northern Plateau is being looked at as a potential site for the telescope facility if built. The Northern Plateau is located within the boundaries of the Astronomy Precinct. The Northern Plateau is the area that starts at the base of the summit cinder cones and extends approximately half a mile to the north. The Northern Plateau varies in elevation between 500 feet and 700 feet below the summit of Mauna Kea and the existing observatories near the summit. The entire Science Reserve is part of the State of Hawai‘i Conservation District, resource subzone."
It will not exceed the boundaries established long ago for "The Astronomy Precinct".
If the area was approved for projects like this - Why fight it? Don't the pluses out-way the minuses? [?]
RE: Thirty Meter Telescope - mella l - 08-31-2008
Well it will bring some really high tech jobs with it![:0]
mella l
"Resolve to be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving, and tolerant with the weak and wrong....because sometime in your life you will have been all of these."
RE: Thirty Meter Telescope - Carey - 08-31-2008
The TMT (30 Meter Telescope) project has many pluses & many minuses....
It is still under investigation... EIS's for the proposal locations (not all of them in the US) are under concideration.... These are not totally 'clean' there are impacts that must be totally reviewed....esp. in the locales they are put... very delicate mountain ecosystems... almost all of the locations being looked at have very significant cultural ties to the mountain (s) under concideration...
The current TMT proposal for Mauna Kea does not have adding a telelscope, but replacing a current outdated (in size) telescope with the segmented mirror TMT...
There is much data available & some of the best places to gather them is to enjoy the many Astrotalk astronomy programs presented by UH-Hilo ( http://astroday.net/ click onthe 'astrotalk' icon) and the Onizuka Visitors Center. (this Friday is the next 'AstroTalk' at UH-H at 7pm & Saturday at Onizuka( www.ifa.hawaii.edu )
Added: There are also some problems with how the observatories have not met the environmental safety requirement placed on them in the past, and that the promises made will, again, not happen... so it is not a perfect scenerio. Many of the people who work on the mountain realize that the 'sins of the past' will foreshadow any plans that are made in the future. The best scenerio is to work with all of the involved groups and work to formulate plans that minimize and eliminate as many potential impacts as possible.
When you get to meet the people that work on these projects, you see how posititve interactions between the various groups is the best way to handle any work in this area. When the groups have ownership in the plans, there is a better chance that things do not get overlooked...
RE: Thirty Meter Telescope - Aaron S - 09-01-2008
I'm frankly very frustrated that once again these Hawaiian Activists have come out of woodwork to pull every stop to block this project. Hawaii County and the State of Hawaii are dangerously dependent on tourism,construction,military and real estate. In short we, need to diversify our economy away from the latter unsustainable and far more environmentally damaging industries.If we don't Hawaii's future will be very bleak.
On a related note, it is ven more frustrating that these same Hawaiian activists have never presented any alternatives that they would find appropriate to diversify our economy here. Instead they evangelize the politics of no.
There is more on this on my blog http://thekonablog.wordpress.com/