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+--- Thread: Gas Electric Propane Costs (/showthread.php?tid=2928)
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Gas Electric Propane Costs - mella l - 03-28-2006
Well of course I'm still in avoidance mode and yesterday went to Staples to do some enlargements. That done I HAD to stop in the Sears satelite store and check to see my one day new refer. Bottom freezer white small19 CF, bottom of the line yes it is Energy Star rated and consumes $478 a year to keep it going!
Reading the fine print I see that figure is done by an effeciency rating firm at 8 cents per KWH, (killawatt hour sp?)!!! Just where on gods green earth is electricity 8 cents a KWH? Oh yeah Missouri, that is true! Here in No. Cal .13332788999 cents per KWH, Hawaii .33333333333366669999 center per KWH. Oh not to hard to do the math!
So anyway I venture over to the high end french door, freezer in the bottom and check out the KW usage, yes it is Energy Star rated, same group and for $478 per one year usage!!! I smell a skunk in the works! Huh the behemoth of 25 plus CF costs the same to run and the runt of the line?? Oh yeah they cost to purchase $2500.00. If I had to have it, just had to, I could but in this part of my developement the graying, I mean the bleach blond years, I'm just waaaayyy to practical! LOL
Also while looking at the fine print glued to the insides of the refers, I note every single low end is hencho in Mexico. On the high end models try as I might, no made in was anywhere to be found, but did find an Assembled in the USA. So guess I have a clue where the parts were made.
So on to today's adventure with the KGas guy. We had propane delivered this time $2.00 per gallon, gas for the autos today $2.55. Well of course we are in No. Cal presently, no ports, no refineries this isn't a complaint just doing this for comparison sake. Since 2001 propane and gasoline in this neck of the woods has been escalating on an eternal trend upward.
Last trip to Hilo gas was $2.99 per gallon, propane was $3.00, and electricity was .3333---- per KWH, so how does it stand today.
Any who, that is my creative avoidance story for today and perhaps I got the rant out of my hair! LOL
Aloha, Mella L
mella l
RE: Gas Electric Propane Costs - emorata - 03-28-2006
hi pam,
seeing how high prices are for electric in hilo, i was wondering why you didn't think that it was justified to do solar as you had originally planned? it seems like things will only keep getting worse for propane, electric and gas resources on the island and users will be at the mercy of any resource shortages.
did your original comparison for the upfront costs of solar vs average yearly usage with star rated appliances and careful oversight make not seem justified? it would be good to find out what an investment in solar or other self generated utilies pay itself off from the average yearly usage a family would need.
the thought of paying $478 year to just make the fridge work is a scary figure indeed!
look forward to any responses.
noel
RE: Gas Electric Propane Costs - mella l - 03-28-2006
Hi Noel,
At this time in our lives and looking far into the future, the seat of the pants aka arm chair estimates for solar on island did not seem to be cost effective for us. We may have to re do that calculation a little more seriously. We would definately do it here in CA if we were building as we have access to relatively economical supplies of solar panels and components, check www.solardepot.com I think that is the site.
I can't even get an estimate from an on island supplier and that puzzles me as to why they would be unwilling to give me an estimate for a 4.8 KW system, to do the comparison (seems like this figure should be at their fingertips). Several of my e-mails looking into this have even been ignored. So very puzzeling to say the least. I would like those figures to help with the decision of whether to ship from here or buy there.
By the way at 33 cents per KWH the same refrigerator would cost a bit more to operate.
So how is your project progressing at this point?
Mella L
mella l
RE: Gas Electric Propane Costs - mella l - 03-28-2006
Can you tell when I get to running at the mouth and get excited I miss lead myself and others!! So sorry, the KWH consumed by the refer was 478 KWH per year at 8 cents per equals $39.80 for a years usage. 478 KWH at .33 center per equals $159.20 for one years operation. Got to thinking about this this eve and when at Lowes checked a few more refers and found the memory isn't what it once was, I think!! LOL
Boy I feel better, so please accept my apology for the first post being misleading, I'll try to settle down now!
Aloha, Mella L
mella l
RE: Gas Electric Propane Costs - David M - 03-28-2006
Mella
If you think that solardepot site you referenced is economical (list price) then I doubt you'll have a problem with BI prices. I compared against my list and your site is way more. If you like, email me and I'll send you a copy of my estimate for a 4.5 KW system.
I suspect 3 reasons why you haven't been able to get a local estimate:
1. They are WAY too busy.
2. Prices and availability are constantly changing, so reluctant to get you a figure that will below your actual.
3. If they were to just give you a figure for a 4.8KW, you'd probably have a heart attack - I almost did.
I still think a good solar or wind or hydro or combo type system will be a bargain compared to future HELCO prices.
David
Ninole Resident
RE: Gas Electric Propane Costs - Carey - 03-28-2006
Mella, we, too, looked into solar when we were looking into buying a lot. Found out that panels suppliers on island have changed, and post Katrina, the supply of panels does seem to be heading to the Gulf area. We were looking at a grid tie system (as we had an offer on a lot with electric, so no SSPP fees). At our rental house, we had reduced our electric use from plain old conservation steps, that a couple of months we were charged Helcos minimum charge...hence there would be no $$ advantage to go solar.
We did get a Trio, at the Hilo Sears "yard sale" in early Oct. It was a unit that had been returned, had 2 small scratches on the doors. Paid less than 1/2 new retail...so if your heart is on the Trio...check to see of they have any Scratch 'n' dents. This is the second one we have purchased on scratch & dent. We got one in the summer '04, paid more for it in Chicago than we did for the one we got in Hilo!
Aloha, Carey
RE: Gas Electric Propane Costs - Hotzcatz - 04-02-2006
Aloha,
I was just researching electric rates and came across HECO's website. The rates are different for each island and the posted rates for Hawaii island are:
HELCO
Rate Schedule Average cents per kilowatthour
Residential 23.91
"P" Large power use businesses 18.51
"J" Medium power use businesses 20.90
"G" Smaller power use businesses 28.48
"H" Commercial cooking, heating, air conditioning
& refrigeration 21.86
"F" Street lights (City & State) 22.49
So it looks like the smaller businesses get nailed the hardest. No wonder this state is considered tough to start businesses in!
A hui hou,
Cathy
RE: Gas Electric Propane Costs - loffelkopffl - 04-03-2006
you can't go by the 23 cents per kwh, you have add in the other charges, which on my last bill came out to 33.7 cents per KWH. also large users in most states pay less than small users, it's the way things are.
RE: Gas Electric Propane Costs - Hotzcatz - 04-04-2006
Ah, sorry, we don't get an electric bill, just dividend checks from the electric company, so I wasn't aware of the additional charges.
They do pay great dividends if you are looking for a company to invest in!
A hui hou,
Cathy
RE: Gas Electric Propane Costs - JerryCarr - 04-04-2006
Aloha Cathy. Does the electric company issue bonds, or does their stock pay regular dividends? How does one go about investing?
Thanks,
Jerry