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Reverse Osmosis/Diatamaceous Earth - Kelena - 09-04-2007
If you ever saw the movie Forbidden Planet, it is about a scientist who is studying an alien civilization that has abandoned a distant planet. They left fascinating and complicated systems in place. The Krell they were called. Shrouded in mystery. Their ways a wonder.
Okay, so I buy this house. It seems to be very well built, but a little quirky. No one can figure out the water system. My inspector did not notice anything unusual about it. He thought it was pretty good. Square concrete tank, below the patio. Cover hidden by simulated pahoehoe lava. Nice.
I buy house (which was sold as is). Can't find pump or filter. Experts disagree.
First, we couldn't find the pump (is this the pump?...is that the pump??). Then we determined that the pump was IN THE TANK (yikes). All experts agree on that.
And then the experts note that there is SOMETHING on the water line. It is thought that this is a filter.
In another thread, Bob Orts suggests, based on my description that this is something that might be used on an RV. I google some RV water filtration sites, and up pop several things that look suspiciously like the tank that is on my water line (it is not a pressure tank, but has a pressure gauge).
And what are these things? They are reverse osmosis systems. I do not know whether I have a reverse osmosis system, but this thing look suspiciously like that, and that would be in keeping with the general level of quality I am seeing.
Problem: I have now installed a 20 micron, 5 micron and UV light filter AFTER this thing, which, I think is a reverse osmosis system.
Is anyone using a whole house reverse osmosis system? Do you have any thoughts on that? And have I now horribly over-filtered my water?
Edited by - glen on 09/05/2007 10:00:23
Edited by - glen on 09/05/2007 18:13:31
RE: Reverse Osmosis/Diatamaceous Earth - JerryCarr - 09-04-2007
Can your water be too clean? Maybe, but I doubt it. The only downside I see is time and cost of maintaining possibly redundant systems. (Depending on how it is set up, you might get flow impediment from all those gadgets, but you don't seem worried about that.)
BTW, I'm not tired of all this. The Bear and I have considered some upgrades to our basic system, so we find it interesting.
Cheerfully exploring the world of water purification,
Jerry
RE: Reverse Osmosis/Diatamaceous Earth - Daniel - 09-04-2007
A RO large enough to supply an entire house wouldn't be cheap (several thousand dollars). Plus you would have maintanence to do on it. Its pretty much pointless to RO catchment water since it is nearly mineral free already. Also you would be wasting a lot of water which wouldn't be good for a catchment system either. As for bugs, UV is more than sufficient to take care of anything you might encounter, if you have a properly sized one. It sounds like you have something unique. If you do infact have a large RO it will be big, have lots of stainless steel, and cartriges that you have to replace. Pumps are easy to identify, there should be no mistaking that. You may have some kind of cholrine injection system or Ozone purification system, which could be what looks like a RO. As far as the pump being in the tank, there is nothing to be afraid of. In fact all of our pumps go under water. If you cant figure your system out let me know and I can help.
A hui hou,
Daniel R Diamond
RE: Reverse Osmosis/Diatamaceous Earth - Kelena - 09-04-2007
Daniel, Jerry,
Well, my initial concern was that the water was filthy as I was not sure if there was a filter and I didn't want to shower in such water, or to subject others to it. So I guess I can't complain that the water is too clean. Lena, at Hawaii Catchment was knowledgeable and convincing regarding this system. However, no one could tell what this thing was on the water line. I thought it was a pump. But now I know better.
My understanding of reverse osmosis is that is the be all and end all of clean. From my reading, the only complaint is that it takes all the flavor out of the water (because it takes the minerals right out of it). I guess my only concern is that if that is true, I may have unnecessarily added on three filters.
Anyway, YES DANIEL. This thing is fairly large. I would say it would hold about 15 gallons. It is dwarfed by the big black pumps though. It is in fact stainless steel and it has a pressure gauge on top. Near the top is a band, that you can remove with some effort (unscrewing, etc).
It is on the water line BEFORE the pumps.
Isn't reverse osmosis used as a last resort?
Here's a picture. If I had known the world was going to see this, I would have cleaned the pump room! That's the silver cylinder, and the black pumps to the left. That's a bag of salt in the middle!
http://www.photoworks.com/photo-sharing/shareSignin.jsp?shareCode=A4C5723C44B&cp=ems_shr_alb_pml&cb=PW
Edited by - glen on 09/04/2007 17:53:30
RE: Reverse Osmosis/Diatamaceous Earth - Les C - 09-04-2007
I haven't seen an RO system, so I can't say if it looks like one. But the pressure gauge on top makes it look like a funky pressure tank. But then, what are those two black tanks...?
I've always heard that while RO can really clean up water, you end up running more down the drain than what is made available for use. There's a lot of backflushing of the membranes to clean them, which is where a lot of water is lost. I don't know how much electricity is consumed in doing so, but that's something else to consider.
Ultimately, have your water tested. It's the only way you can be sure if you're over-, under-, or filtering just right. I understand that RO treated water will test out differently than a regular filter set up; it can make water more acidic. Your testing results would be interesting to see because your cement tank should neutralize your catchment water. And if you do have an RO system, it might make your water a bit more acidic.
Edited by - Les C on 09/04/2007 19:28:34
RE: Reverse Osmosis/Diatamaceous Earth - Carey - 09-04-2007
Glen, This looks to Hubby & I like a stainless steel housed sand or DE filter for a well - See link at:
http://www.poolcenter.com/filters_nautilus_ss_poolstor.htm
& your pump sounds a lot like a well pump. We have had a couple of whole house RO units on our old mainland wells. Most of the time you place a cartridge filter BEFORE the RO units, to extend the life of the RO membrane. I have not seen an RO unit that can be opened (See this link for a desalination stainless housed RO system with sealed tanks: http://lisachan07.en.ec21.com/product_detail.jsp?group_id=GC02056745&product_id=CA02056779&product_nm=Reverse_Osmosis_System
. The semi permeable membrane in that filter is the expensive part & not really sturdy. All of the RO systems that I have seen are totally sealed.
Good luck with this....Maybe you have the parts for installing a well!
RE: Reverse Osmosis/Diatamaceous Earth - Daniel - 09-04-2007
Yeah, That doesn't look like a RO, more like some kind of pool filter or water treatment device. Does it have electricity? Have you ever opened it? whats inside? Those two large black tanks are well pressure tanks, similar to the ones I sell. So like jerry said you may have a submersible well pump too. One way to find out would be to see if the pump has wires running to it. Most pumps are about 4" in diameter and maybe 2 feet long, made of stainless steel. However if it is a submersible well pump and was installed properly it will have a cover over it to allow the water to move past the motor to cool it, as the motor attaches to the bottom of the pump. That is normal for pumps installed in tanks. Other wise you would have a motor outside of the tank. One thing you could look for is a pump motor control box. Its usually placed near the pressure tank and pressure switch. It could have the brand name of the motor written on it, for example "frankin electric" or "Grundfos". That will help you determine what size of pump you have, GPM etc...or if you even have typical well pump. Some dont have control boxes but still run on 220 power.
So check the pump power supply, where the pump motor is located, if it has a control box and what is inside of that tank thingy with the gage on top, if its a filter you probably dont need it and are loosing pressure to it. Check out the pictures from the last post. That is what a whole house RO system looks like.
Yeah, RO is for most situations not necessary. Especially for catchment water since the main purpose it to remove dissolved solids, like salt or calcium. We reccomend it if a well has salt levels above 400 PPM. But those are few and far between. Mostly in kona.
Daniel R Diamond
Edited by - daniel on 09/04/2007 22:17:54
RE: Reverse Osmosis/Diatamaceous Earth - wyatt - 09-05-2007
Having owned a few I agree with Carey it look like sand or DE filter for a pool. Shouldn't be
a problem with your added system. Just more maintenance. Chance it change your water pressure having both.
Aloha
Wyatt
RE: Reverse Osmosis/Diatamaceous Earth - Kelena - 09-05-2007
Sand or diatamaceous earth filter for a pool? There is a pool, but this filter is definetely on the waterline that goes to the house, and not the one that goes to the pool (actually, the one that goes to the pool is shutoff, and water for the pool apparently comes from the sky).
Okay, so, it looks like I owe Carey (and Daniel and Wyatt) a cup of good Kona coffee, over some lilikoi pastry.
I am now thinking that the D.E. filter may have been ALL I needed on the waterline. It takes out things down to a micron or so.
From what I am reading, it looks like it needs to be flushed out every now and then (yuck -- here comes a ball of giardia) and then D.E. is added back to recharge the system. Something like that. Okay, so I have a D.E. system on the house.
Next time: a normal house.
Edited by - glen on 09/05/2007 10:00:01
RE: Reverse Osmosis/Diatamaceous Earth - Daniel - 09-05-2007
Glen,
Did you find out any info on your pump?
Daniel R Diamond