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how often to paint? and need painter - frossie - 04-19-2008
This is probably a very stupid question. But how often do houses need o be painted? Our house is hardiplank siding with wood trim and Trex (I think) decks. The hardiplank is fine, but the wood seems to need painting again. We last painted 3 years ago. When we bough the house it was only 3 years old and already it looked like it needed painting - you could just rub the paint off the trim with your hand. I was asking around for a painter as the last guy we used no longer paints, and a friend of mine said "What? You only need to paint every 10 years!". Is that true?? We used good quality paint and everything. I am wondering if the house was never primed right to start with.
Anyway if anybody can recommend a reliable painter who can also make minor repairs to the worse-off bits of wood, please let me know. It would be best if he/she has no fear of heights as this is a very tall house.
RE: how often to paint? and need painter - hooligal - 04-19-2008
Frossie, my s.o., Steve, is an awesome painter with 23 years of commercial and residential experience. He's also got an incredible eye for color if you want design/color advice. Stve willl be back on island May 20th if you can wait that long. And he does paint the tall stuff, tho I can't bear to watch! [:0]
Ping me via email & I'll give you his phone & email.
RE: how often to paint? and need painter - Kapohocat - 04-19-2008
I will second Steve (Hooligal's SO)! He painted for one of our own punawebbers while he was here on vacation!! ha ha We coerced him into "unvacationing" for 4 days!
He did a great job and will be painting the inside of the same house after drywallers are done! ( I do have pics of Steve spraying the primer on all the facia and trim).
Okay sorry I forgot the timing of painting issue. It sounds like the original paint didnt have a good primer coat with "real" primer, not just two coats of exterior paint. The other issues is cheap paint - I suggest for the few extra dollars - get good paint. ICI/Dulux in Hilo has professional grade paint - or as SB says not "that HD crap" which is serviceable if the surface has been painted with decent primer underneath. (Come on Steve, jump into the water and help us out here.. I know you are lurking!)
RE: how often to paint? and need painter - kani-lehua - 04-19-2008
from an o'ahuan's point of view: our house in kapolei (west o'ahu) is part of a condominium community. the association requires the homeowners to paint their houses every 5 years or so whether it needs it or not.
i agree with kapohokat that the quality of the paint and prep is important. we used the dulux paint on the exterior of this house in kailua that we painted ourselves. it's only one story so it wasn't so difficult.
malia paha o lohe aku
perhaps they will hear
RE: how often to paint? and need painter - gtill - 04-19-2008
The best qualified paint for Hi., wouldn't necessarily cut it in Puna! Here, mildew is king, and the major concern!
The latest in anti mildew is a Zinsser product, "Ultra White" Exterior house & trim, semi gloss or gloss, I belive it's called and is actually graded to combat mildew, only a little more expensive! Next would be a Sherwin Williams product called Duration(I think). Their top line @ 45$ gal. (lifetime guarantee!)
Did you try light clorox and rinsing the paint good, especially in shaded or overhung spots? Paint work costs about 6xthe paint cost for labor. Plus Sears sells good solutions for cleaning and resurfacing areas instead of painting! Pressure washer helps too!
RE: how often to paint? and need painter - newcircle - 04-20-2008
As far as the life span of a paint job of course there are many factors to take in. As others have said, prep and primer are key, but also having a good substrate to base the finish coats on also. This could be things you would never see such as damp wood, wrong type of wood for a certain application, end grains not being properly primed or moisture trying to escape through the paint. Hardiplank is an excellent product that holds paint very well. Once painted and backbrushed, it should last for many years. Of course once again if the quality of the paint is poor,mold, mildew, and a list of issues could come up. It's always better to spend the few extra dollars on quality!
The reason your home looked like it needed painting within three years is because it was sprayed and not gone over with a brush. Hardiplack is a very porous surface "think brick". It covers very well even in one coat and "looks" fine, yet what you don't see is all the empty pockets of substrate underneath. Being that hardiplank is pourous and these pockets may not have been filled in with paint, that leaves room for air, moisture ext to act as a barrier between the paint and the base substrate. Think of it in the terms of if you had a canvas that you took a rattle can of a color and sprayed it over, then did the same but used a brush and worked it into the canvas.They would look the same, but which do you think would last longer and why.
When you say "You can rub the paint off with your hand" do you mean it comes right off and you see bare wood? Or do you mean it's chalky and dulls the color?? I could tell you a lot based on your answer.
If it is peeling and just coming right off in small sheets and/or pieces, we have a certain moisture problem on the original substrate. It may have appeared to be bone dry when painted, but it wasn't. Heavy moisture in the air, painting to late in the evening, or simply the wood was not cured when it was instaled could all be factors. The primer and paint, "no matter how good it was" needs a dry surface. If it's moist, the pours inside that wood "think bricks again!" are wet and filled. Paint covers over and creates a barrier locking in that moisture in. When moisture dries, it expands pushing out on anything it comes in contact with, ie coats of paint! Take a piece of the flaked paint and turn it over. Does it have a cedar color staining to it?
The hardiplank is not going to have this problem because it breaths really well. Don't worry, this problem can be fixed. Yet, don't try to just put on more paint till the moisture issue is solved! It will make it worse! yikes.
I hope this wasn't way too much info all at once. I've been painting for a very long time and I deal with a lot of homes with issues and pride myself on finding out what those are and stopping them. When it comes to paint, everything has a reason, everything has a solution.
I'll be back home on island soon if you would like to meet up. In the meantime, please feel free to ask away!!
Mahalo!
quote:
Originally posted by frossie
This is probably a very stupid question. But how often do houses need o be painted? Our house is hardiplank siding with wood trim and Trex (I think) decks. The hardiplank is fine, but the wood seems to need painting again. We last painted 3 years ago. When we bough the house it was only 3 years old and already it looked like it needed painting - you could just rub the paint off the trim with your hand. I was asking around for a painter as the last guy we used no longer paints, and a friend of mine said "What? You only need to paint every 10 years!". Is that true?? We used good quality paint and everything. I am wondering if the house was never primed right to start with.
Anyway if anybody can recommend a reliable painter who can also make minor repairs to the worse-off bits of wood, please let me know. It would be best if he/she has no fear of heights as this is a very tall house.
www.newcircleartworks.com
residential & commercial painting
RE: how often to paint? and need painter - Kapohocat - 04-20-2008
quote:
Originally posted by newcircle... This could be things you would never see such as damp wood..
Thank you Newcircle! I forgot this one!
SB stacked 1 x3 that was going to be used for trim but had sat outside in a ...ahem.... Hilo lumber yard for probably months. It took almost 1 week in a hot almost sealed closed Leilani garage with a dehumidifier running day and night to get the moisture out enough to paint!
RE: how often to paint? and need painter - newcircle - 04-20-2008
Hi ya Cat! Maybe I should have signed STEVE !!! at the end of my comments. Newcircle is me! Coming home soon, I can't wait!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Kapohocat
quote:
Originally posted by newcircle... This could be things you would never see such as damp wood..
Thank you Newcircle! I forgot this one!
SB stacked 1 x3 that was going to be used for trim but had sat outside in a ...ahem.... Hilo lumber yard for probably months. It took almost 1 week in a hot almost sealed closed Leilani garage with a dehumidifier running day and night to get the moisture out enough to paint!
www.newcircleartworks.com
residential & commercial painting
RE: how often to paint? and need painter - frossie - 04-20-2008
Wow thorough answers...
To answer some questions that were raised - we did use good quality paint when we painted, but since it just went over the previous product I don't know whether that would have necessarily helped. When I said it comes off the hardiplank, I mean if you rub your hand it looks like you rubbed a chalky board.
I am sure going to get in touch with Steve!
RE: how often to paint? and need painter - newcircle - 04-22-2008
Hi frossie ! Steve da painter here again.
Ok... so what's going on is Burnishing. Burnishing happens when you use a flat finish paint on a base color of 3 or 4. Think of base 1 as white...base 4 as real dark, black. Just from your reply I can tell you that your exterior paint is a flat, grey or blue, maybe a darker brown...my guess is blue? Whatever it is, I'm sure it's on the darker side.
SO... why this happens.......Paint basically has three componants. Pigment (color) excellerators (helps it dry) and binders (makes it hold on). When going with a darker color the paint has more pigment in it, a lot more. Having this much pigment in a can of paint takes a little away from the other two to aquire the deeper color. If you use a flat, there's not a sheen on all that pigment to protect it. The color, ie (pigment) sits on top. Useing a sheen, even a satin creates a protective barrier between the color and the elements and you don't get burnishing. Think of a chalk board...you could draw all over it then wipe it right off, but if you were to spray a clear coat over the chalk, it would "lock" it in and protect it, same thing with a deep base color flat on a house. Trying to "clean it" will make it a lot worse. A burnishing house can be left alone yet the paint job is not going to last very long as there is nothing to protect all that pigment from the elements. As much as it pains, what I would do is put one more coat of paint on with a sheen, problem solved. I know that sounds easier said then done, but choices are limited. #1 Leave it alone and know that you will be re-painting in three years, #2 One more coat in a sheen that will make the paint job last for many years to come.
The other two parts did their job. The binders can do only so much with all that pigment.
Ammonia is an alkaline compound of nitrogen and hydogen that is soluble in water making a fast cheap excelerator for latex paint. Yet, it dries out faster then the other compounds of paint and is cheaper then other excelerators used in more quality paint. My point is, if the paint has a strong ammonia smell...it's cheap paint and brings the threat of burnishing up even higher. I'm sure you had good paint, wrong sheen. A little off track for the paint knowledge of the day!
Hope this brings a better understanding of what's happening and why.... Didn't hear the answer of the trim paint...coming off to bare wood??
quote:
Originally posted by frossie
Wow thorough answers...
To answer some questions that were raised - we did use good quality paint when we painted, but since it just went over the previous product I don't know whether that would have necessarily helped. When I said it comes off the hardiplank, I mean if you rub your hand it looks like you rubbed a chalky board.
I am sure going to get in touch with Steve!
www.newcircleartworks.com
residential & commercial painting