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The generator for moderate energy needs - StillHope - 08-30-2008
The forum "search" is still down.To-day I read that one of the PW members was buying a generator .I don't know much about generators.My guess that to have a generator to produce enough energy for your household needs,probably a huge investment (like solar) to be paid off for many years,otherwise most of the people would have said good-buy to HELCO.
But may be I am wrong and there is an affordable generator for the modest energy spending family?
I would appreciate if you share your thoughts and experience on the subject.Thank you in advance.
RE: The generator for moderate energy needs - oink - 08-30-2008
Unless you made it clear somewhere else, you need to specify what the purpose is. Is it to be for you primary source, a backup for an off grid system, or for emergencies such as hurricanes or earthquakes. If for emergencies, do you want to be able to operate like there is no outage or at a limited emergency level? What appliances etc. do you want to be able to run. The one Dave referred to in a different thread would be capable of serving 5 or more modest houses on a limited emergency basis but with considerable fuel consumption. He has a rather expensive setup. For limited emergency purposes, the big draws will be refrigeration and water pump, and electric water heater if applicable and you need to use it. If you are modest and just have one efficient refrigerator and just a small pump to push the catchment water you can get by with a fairly inexpensive generator, with modest fuel consumption. A well pump will require a bit more. If you are wanting a heavy duty generator for constant use, you will need to spend considerably more as most common generators are not designed for that type of service. In your situation, you would also have noise issues. It would be difficult or expensive to have a system that would not annoy either you, your neighbors or both with the engine noise. If you direct the noise away from you, it's going toward someone else.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: The generator for moderate energy needs - StillHope - 08-30-2008
Thank you,Oink!
If the noise is really bad,I don't think I want the generator ,because I don't want to upset my neighbors.
I was thinking about permanent generator.I will have propane stove and water heater.
But the refrigerator ,washer and well pump - electric.I do have an electric dryer,but will not use it often.
RE: The generator for moderate energy needs - Guest - 08-30-2008
Moderate energy use?
biomechanical energy harvester
-------
Glob
RE: The generator for moderate energy needs - JWFITZ - 08-30-2008
It might surprise people, but I really believe at this point the most economical and "green" solution is a simple, perhaps 6000 watt peak GASOLINE powered generator, running most systems in the house and a battery bank, to power low level systems as your lights, tv, etc, when it isn't running. Gasoline powered machinery, dollar per dollar and all else revealed, is the cleanest and most energy efficient machinery you can buy, and dare I say with a lower carbon footprint than even solar. WHY is a complicated discussion, and I'm sure there will be a lot of controversy in the issue, but if we really compare reality to reality, that's where you will end up.
RE: The generator for moderate energy needs - StillHope - 08-30-2008
Jay,can you tell us more about it,including the noise level?
RE: The generator for moderate energy needs - MarkP - 08-30-2008
I think it should be out of the question to power an electric water heater or dryer off of a generator. Those are huge loads. I can see that a condo apartment on the 30th floor might have a problem using propane appliances, but if you have fuel on site, you should burn it directly to supply your heating needs. To make heat with electricity you first need to make the electricity, which involves making heat and then throwing about 3/4 of it away, so if you burn the fuel in a water heater you will get about 4 times as much hot water as if you burn the fuel in a generator to run an electric water heater.
Storing fuel for an emergency is a problem. Gasoline isn't convenient to store in large quantities or for very long. Propane on the other hand can be stored hundreds of gallons at a time, lasts a long time, and requires no special precautions. If you were willing to make the initial investment, and could get propane delivered, I think a large 100 plus gallon propane tank, propane water heater, stove, and dryer, and finally a dedicated propane fired generator would be the ultimate back-up system. I have seen this topic discussed before and the question of the relative efficiency of propane vs gasoline in a generator is debated. I think this is not important because you won't be running the generator all that much if it is an emergency back-up system. The important thing is that when you need it it really has to work smoothly. A propane system with a large dedicated tank would work seamlessly. Even for more continuous use, propane burns more cleanly than gasoline, resulting in less maintenance and some cost savings there. Also, I have used a generator while fishing. It needs to be fed every few hours and someone usually forgets in the middle of the night. Maybe I am clumsy but I always spilled while filling the tank. Thats fuel on me, fuel in the air, and fuel on the ground, every day. A propane spill just evaporates. Propane is just much nicer to work with all around.
RE: The generator for moderate energy needs - Hotzcatz - 08-30-2008
Get a mid-sized Honda generator and chain it to something so it doesn't walk off. Something around 1,500 to 2,500 watts should do. Hondas are quiet enough that you can have a conversation not that far away from them even while they are on. Some of them come with electric start others you've got to pull the cord. Other than quiet, select a generator that puts out either a modified sine wave or a true sine wave on the AC output side. A true sine wave will run all electronics easily. A modified sine wave may give some electronical things problems and a stepped wave runs even less things.
We run a primarily solar photovoltaic system but occasionally we use the "iron sun" (Honda generator) to charge up the battery systems. We also use it for heavy loads such as vacuuming and the hot air popcorn popper. (That pulls 1,475 watts which is 25 watts less than our inverter can push.) The washing machine doesn't use that much power and the solar clothes dryer (clothes line) uses none.
Solar electricity isn't that big of an expense if you are willing to educate yourself a lot about it and do a lot of the work yourself. We are putting another 500 watts of solar panels on our roof this weekend which will almost double the system we've been using for the past seven or eight years. We've still got way less than $10K into the system and we haven't had to pay an electric bill since '01.
A basic solar system has a bunch of solar panels somewhere in the sun, wired to a solar controller and a bank of batteries - usually deep cycle batteries that look real similar to car batteries except they are heavier - then the batteries are wired to a circuit breaker/cut off switch and then the inverter. The inverter is a metal box about the size of an old bread box, that is wired to the circuit breaker box for the house and everything else is the same as for a "normal" house. We do use all curly bulbs and have electronics on "off" switches and are careful about power usage. Oh, in case the batteries get low and the sun isn't co-operating, the generator is turned on to charge up the battery bank or supply power for heavy loads.
Outback makes some nice inverters. Honda and Onan make nice generators.
RE: The generator for moderate energy needs - Bullwinkle - 08-31-2008
The Honda EU series are the best - quiet and bulletproof. They make a 1000, 2000 (pull start) and a 3500 watt electric start .. imho the 2000 is the best value.
RE: The generator for moderate energy needs - JWFITZ - 08-31-2008
I'm with Bullwinkle. Put in a sensible sized battery bank--the bigger the bank is the longer it will last--and if you feel like dabbling with solar or some such down the road it is no problem to add it on.