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+--- Thread: Confessions of a crappy gardener. (/showthread.php?tid=4238)
Confessions of a crappy gardener. - JWFITZ - 08-31-2008
Well, I'm learning. . .
Actually it hasn't been by any stretch a total loss up here, as a lot has been learned about what will grow at my elevation and what won't, and we mountain folk seem to be a minority around here so there has been a lot of go it alone. I think the lesson to be learned is that if anybody is out there thinking that complimenting a fair portion of your food budget with a garden is going to be easy, well, in the short term anyway, think again!
Still, it hasn't been a total loss. Most of the problems have come from some big catastrophes that I'll share.
1) At 2500, with a site in native conditions, slugs will eat anything they please so fast that large stands of things will disappear overnight. There appears to be no deterrent, no baiting with beer or whatever, as the sheer volume of the "zulu dawn" style slug attacks are scarce to be believed. I just have had to plant things they don't eat, which there are a surprising number of things. Uala and Taro in particular are boom-proof as seem to be potatoes, and root vegetables of most types. But, these are not chicken proof.
2) Chickens seem to be the next logical step, but are going to take a earning out of your harvest for themselves. As well, feral cat and mongoose population is going to really wreak havoc on those birds until you get it all under control. Please, before you re-release nicely neutered feral cats(in YOUR neighborhood, right?) realize they eat just as many native birds and chickens as non-neutered ones. . .I started with 16 birds and have 3 very very shell shocked but observant ones left.
3) Bananas and Papayas seem to be fearless, once the Papayas get tall enough the slugs don't eat them. It's worth planting big ones, as you'll replace little ones.
4) Taro is simply the most valuable thing you can plant, but it's not an overnight crop and will take me two years to get useful quantities.
I found this link to be especially useful. http://www.canoeplants.com/index.html
I have planted a lot of koa, for future shade trees, lumber and fertilizer, at least a couple hundred at this point. I really recommend that. They are very fast growing and hearty trees, and lovely. They are very valuable as carbon sinks, nitrogen fixing, and grow fast enough to compete with other invasives given a head start. When the sun comes out up here it will simply kill a garden, so filtered light can be helpful for a lot of tender stuff. Rather than a greenhouse nicely trimmed koa are the plan. A 3 year old tree will be near 15 feet tall growing in these conditions.
Coffee and tea both have been big successes.
The giant lilikoi does well, but I've a bit of slug/bug trouble with that one too.
Cashews are doing well.
BEWARE bringing plants home! Half of my problem came from bringing very nice little plants from an "organic" nursery who will remain nameless, that were utterly infested with whitefly. Once you've got whitefly, it is very difficult getting rid of it.
Anyway a few thoughts and invitations to helpful advice on anything else that might work in the area!
Thanks!
Jay
RE: Confessions of a crappy gardener. - pslamont - 08-31-2008
Very Cool, Jay.
I am up near you (North Glenwood Rd) and have had really good luck with:
Green Beans
Lettuce
Taro
Carrots
Choyote
onion
If screened (to potect from fruit flies), I also have had good production on:
Cucumbers, summer squash, crookneck squash, zucchini
We will be experimenting with much more this season and I will post...
RE: Confessions of a crappy gardener. - JWFITZ - 08-31-2008
A small greenhouse for me at some point needs to be part of the picture, but of yet I've shied away from it because of the reputation of the area--I don't want to draw "grow-op" attention and have helicopters buzzing me any more than they already do. That would get very tiresome and lettuce isn't worth the pain in the arse.
I'd like to put in a bigger pond, for food fish rather than just for fun, but that's a way off.
RE: Confessions of a crappy gardener. - Hotzcatz - 08-31-2008
Oh, your poor chickens! Well, at least there's a few left who are much wiser now. Hopefully they will teach the new ones how to get along when you get more. Is there a rooster and hen in the three that are left? Maybe they will reproduce on their own? You'd probably still need to protect the little ones if they do hatch any out.
Ducks are really good at eating slugs although they are also very tasty to whoever has been taking down your chickens, no doubt. How about a non duck/chicken eating dog to chase away the feral cats and mongoose? Trapping the feral cats and mongoose works pretty well, too. We've done that on occasion when it seems we were being overwhelmed with them.
How about diatomacious (spelling?) earth around your garden? Doesn't that slow slugs down? I start a lot of my small plants up out of the reach of slugs as well as chickens and then put them into the fenced garden so chickens won't get them but still lose a few to slugs. We used to have those Giant African Land Snails all over the place but after a year of flying every one I could find into the gulch there are almost none of them left. It takes several years to get a garden going. Other than the soil issues, there are the predators (as you have been finding out) as well as discovering what actually will grow in your area.
Small kid time gardening was easy since I learned from my dad and he learned from his dad, etc. and they had all been gardening in the same geographical type of place. What worked for great grandpa still worked for great grand daughter. However, relocating to somewhere entirely different has really invalidated that knowledge base! Many of the basics remain, mulch, compost, etc., but there is a lot of new stuff - fruit flies, no chilling hours, etc.
Peach, plum, apple and other fruit trees might work well up at your elevation. Check Dave Wilson's website for the cultivars which will grow with minimal winter chilling hours. http://www.davewilson.com/ and you can order some of them (Dave Wilson's is a wholesale supplier) from: http://www.baylaurelnursery.com/
Lavender should work well at your elevation although it isn't an edible it does smell really nice. Coffee and tea should also grow well. What are your neighbors successful at growing?
RE: Confessions of a crappy gardener. - JWFITZ - 08-31-2008
The only three things my neighbors grow are 1) dirtier 2) broker 3) and you can guess the third.
A bit of an exaggeration, but not too much. They also seem to plant wrecked cars, but those don't grow.
The diatamaceous earth doesn't work because the slugs live in the staghorn fern and when you have a lot of growth, which you do pretty readily, they hardly ever travel on the ground and get into it.
I've considered the fruit trees, but I think it would be difficult to ripen most of those without serious rot or blight. The peaches especially I think would be a problem, and they're prone to explode and rot if you get a week or two of heavy rain. Citrus seems to do well though.
Fortunately my lot has fine soil, and with the addition of sawdust(which I often have in abundance) it breaks from the nasty heavy muck into very workable dirt.
RE: Confessions of a crappy gardener. - Jared I - 08-31-2008
Have you thought about some guinea hens? They seem to eat everything including slugs and what they wont eat they will kill for the heck of it. Plus they are great herd alarms for you chickens, my grandpop would range his chickens unless he had a guinea hen around. If you can get your hands on Buckeye chickens, they are even meaner, they hunt mice and other farm vermin but can be a little hard to handle if they get feral.
RE: Confessions of a crappy gardener. - Scott_S - 08-31-2008
Hi Jay,
I am having the same issues here in HA, about 1200'. Thank goodness the wife and I like green beans, they do really well. Peas, lettuce, radishes, and tomatos are doing ok, sweet corn was small but tasty and no bugs bothered it.
With cucumbers I have to play hide the cucumber, I plant them around other plants and such, and usually can harvest some before they fill up with grubs. The zuchini even gets grubs, picked four two were ok, one had grubs and one actually had flies fly out when I cut it in half.
The squash end rots before it gets 4 inches long. I am going to try and screen in some zuchini and squash, like Pam says. A green house of sorts maybe the only other way.
I have two raised beds, that I pump the water from my 300 gal tilapia
(60 fish)tank thru, but those plants are just starting so time will tell. Maybe a lift off screen cover for the raised beds might work well, hey, that might even work for the ground beds.
Slug poison rules.
Good luck,
Scott
RE: Confessions of a crappy gardener. - dcl - 08-31-2008
We also screened using some very inexpensive mosquito netting from Ace. We put everything in tubs up off the ground, put a trellis type top on everything and hang the netting over top and clip it in place with clothespins. We have done really well with the cucumbers and tomatoes so far. Lettuce we have not had to do this with but they are hydroponic and if we needed to we could do those as well. The flavor of home grown is just so good and worth the extra effort.
This took us several tries beginning a few years ago of trial and error and thinking outside our limited knowledge of growing elsewhere to come up with some of these things to try. Just about anything to keep the bugs away from the plants so that they can't invade it is worth a try.
RE: Confessions of a crappy gardener. - JWFITZ - 09-01-2008
Good suggestions.
Yes, I had good success with green beans too, especially the blue lake type.
Scott--where did you get the tilapia?
RE: Confessions of a crappy gardener. - Kapohocat - 09-01-2008
quote:
Originally posted by JWFITZ....
Well, I'm learning. . .
Actually it hasn't been by any stretch a total loss...
I love the title of this thread! I swear I could be the Seaside version of this title! Although the lemon grass Markie gave me at the last Puna Web party is going well and I have been splitting it off for everyone.
Good luck and keep us posted!