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+--- Thread: Sustainable Land, Air & Water - disallow cesspool (/showthread.php?tid=4317)
Sustainable Land, Air & Water - disallow cesspool - Rob Tucker - 10-21-2006
I would like to suggest that the provision allowing cesspools should be exmined and consderation of
disallowing cesspools should be made.
The ground is so pourous here and the cost of septic systems is quite reasonable. Septic systems should become the standard requirement district wide.
RE: Sustainable Land, Air & Water - disallow cesspool - wax - 10-31-2006
Makes sense to me. Should the systems be more sophisticated than simple septic systems. How can we ensure that they are properly maintained over time?
RE: Sustainable Land, Air & Water - disallow cesspool - Barbara - 11-01-2006
It might be helpful to know what the county requires and what the county does. My experience is that complaints are accepted, but follow-up and follow-through may not occur in my life-time.
For example, a neighbor lives in a long standing unpermitted structure. Friends dug a cesspool for him. There are no county records of either the dwelling or cesspool. The Health Department fellow told me to call when I saw the cesspool being used.
I guess we are supposed to use binoculars, note down date and time and call somebody...
Applicable County codes, their enforcement, and the beaurocratic follow-up don't always jive.
Apparently there is a division of responsibility between the Health Deparment and the Department of Sanitation.
So, in the discussion of allowing or disallowing cesspools and requiring septic systems, all the requirements would mean nothing if there was no follow through by whatever agency is charged to follow through.
RE: Sustainable Land, Air & Water - disallow cesspool - athena peanut - 11-01-2006
I agree that cesspool use is questionable. The septic system is also an imperfect system, only a few babysteps ahead of the cesspool system, and requires an enormous investment in nonrenewable plastic materials. The septic system is NOT a reasonable cost to very low income people. Let us not forget Puna has a very high percentage of very poor landowners.
These best system is a composting system, one that creates rich compost for soil amendment. This can be accomplished with one of many commercial composters available today or simply with a mimimum of basic items. Soil to grow food is a major problem for many residents in Puna. Most of the world's population lives on food crops produced primarily with human waste and they are a lot healtheir than most Americans. So let's do revisit the cesspool question and promote composting systems.
RE: Sustainable Land, Air & Water - disallow cesspool - peteadams - 11-09-2006
The aerobic waste water treatment system is the next step up from a regular septic system. On Maui any septic field within 1000 feet of a water well is required to have one of these. While an aerobic system has the usual leach field, its tank has an extra compartment that holds a powerful aerator that blows air bubbles through the fluid. The bubbler runs about 12 hours every day so it is electrically demanding. In principle it is similar to a municipal waste treatment plant.
The aerobic system we that Maui County required us to install for a 3Br/2Ba single family residence cost $17,000, but it did come with one year's paid inspection and maintenance.This is obviously a ridiculous price for a single family septic system but could probably be added into a mortgage for most people. If you are just scraping together a down payment it would be a burden.
I feel divided about this as price is only one issue. Puna soils, when there are any, percolate remarkably quickly, often into cracked and loosely piled rock such as you see exposed on the makai end of the Kapoho Road. You know the leach liquid goes straight down, eventually into the Puna acquifer, the largest acquifer on the island. On Maui we had heavy clay (old pineapple field) but the county still required the aerobic system due to our proximity to the subdivision's well.
RE: Sustainable Land, Air & Water - disallow cesspool - peteadams - 11-09-2006
I agree with Athena that a composting toilet is the superior waste treatment option. Regular septic systems produce a fairly dirty leachate. The aerobic system I described produces very clean water (relatively) but at a huge dollar cost. What composting toilets produce (and there's not much of it) can be worked into soil around flowers and shrubs without a second thought. I'd still wear gloves though. Off grid people need to consider that the better composting toilets require electricity to keep the compostiing action steady.
The real problem is the effect on house value and saleability. I wonder what the results would be of a poll asking "would you buy a house that only has a composting toilet?" Can you imagine some of the MacMansions being built in Puna now installing composting toilets? I can, but I suspect the builders can't. There's also a maintenance issue besides the ick factor that scares some people. What if it doesn't work and it takes a couple of weeks to figure out how to get it composting again? Many don't want to deal with it if they can possibly get out of it.
There's at least one answer. If the county determined that regular septic systems are not clean enough for the Puna acquifer they could require either a composting toilet or an aerobic system for single family houses on Ag zoning property. Any new large development in any zoning should be required to have a full waste water treatment plant if municipal sewers are not available (they may already require this). Once the composting toilet is required and is the lesser cost by far people would perhaps adapt and accept composting as the better alternative.
RE: Sustainable Land, Air & Water - disallow cesspool - Rob Tucker - 11-09-2006
Most changes are made incrementally. I think it would be defendable and doable for the county (or state) to start with disallowing cesspools. Many, many people will scream and complain about that. Most people are concerned with what is cheapest. Defending the Hawaiian/Puna environment has to start somewhere.
I suggest starting with cesspools because it is now and it is doable and it would, itself, be a large improvement.
RE: Sustainable Land, Air & Water - disallow cesspool - Barbara - 11-10-2006
Rob, I agree. Well said.
RE: Sustainable Land, Air & Water - disallow cesspool - Kapohocat - 11-11-2006
Aloha everyone! I am from Rob's Punwebbers - he has added this to the forums -
I agree on cesspools being banned in baby steps - but eventually completely - having watched the wastewater debate from both Puako and Kapoho and also higher elevations.
Also that right now cesspools should be eliminated on anything less than 1 acre and on anything lower than 400'. Although this is the current rule of thumb, there are currently places in Seaview as an example that the SOH DOH still allow legal cesspools on new SFR construction on lots approx 8000'. IMHO, this is ludicrous.
Catherine Dumond
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