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+--- Thread: I hate disclaimers like this (/showthread.php?tid=4804)
I hate disclaimers like this - Fishboy - 12-19-2008
I like to go through the multiple listings through the Hawaii Information Service and today I was looking over a few in HPP. Several of these listings included this disclaimer:
Information here is deemed reliable but not guaranteed. Buyer and Buyers Agent to do his or her own due diligence investigation of all the pertinent facts.
Now, I can figure out the English well enough, but I saw this identical language in several listings and it made me think there could be some real problems. In the case of HPP, does this mean the property has really serious problems?
Aloha pumehana,
Brian and Mary
Lynnwood, WA\Discovery Harbour
RE: I hate disclaimers like this - leilaniguy - 12-19-2008
I've seen this statement on listings from every subdivision in Puna. It's pretty standard. Translate it to read "Don't buy a pig in a poke."
RE: I hate disclaimers like this - John S. Rabi - 12-19-2008
Nah Brian, it's just a typical case of a lazy real estate agent listing the property. That's why I like them so much! [}
]Aloha,
John S. Rabi, GM,ARB,BFT,CM,CBR,FHS,PB,RB
808.989.1314
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"
RE: I hate disclaimers like this - Fishboy - 12-20-2008
I think you've nailed it, John. What really burned me was the implied laziness of the agent. If it were my listing, I'd fire them for lack of interest.
Aloha pumehana,
Brian and Mary
Lynnwood, WA\Discovery Harbour
RE: I hate disclaimers like this - oink - 12-20-2008
quote:I don't know of an MLS system that doesn't have that posted on each listing.Yes the information is deemed reliable but not guaranteed. An agent could have mismeasured a room, the taxes could be off by a few bucks, an agent could have relied on the seller for square footage because it wasn't available elsewhere (and the seller was in error). He may have 50 sq. ft. less or even 300 less. Or, he could have more. Those are just a few examples of why the information is deemed accurate but not guaranteed. Any time you are purchasing a property, whether vacant land, a home, condo, investment, etc., a buyer needs to do due diligence and use their inspection time to verify information, inspect the property, research permit issues, future use, etc. The agent relies on a seller(s) to accurately complete the seller's disclosure and tell the agent about the property. That is information the agent then relays to consumers. The seller's disclosure is one "tool" the buyer can read to know more about the property. However, it shouldn't be the only thing he does...i.e. He needs to do inspections and whatever else is necessary to make sure he's content with what he's purchasing. There are some circumstances where an agent will find out information the seller may not have known. In our state, that information then has to be disclosed. Hope that helps.
Originally posted by Fishboy: Information here is deemed reliable but not guaranteed. Buyer and Buyers Agent to do his or her own due diligence investigation of all the pertinent facts
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: I hate disclaimers like this - Fishboy - 12-20-2008
quote]Originally posted by Fishboy: Information here is deemed reliable but not guaranteed. Buyer and Buyers Agent to do his or her own due diligence investigation of all the pertinent facts[/quote]
Oink,
I appreciate your point, but my thought was that anyone who makes a statement that qualifies the product or service they provide, doesn't have complete faith in what they're selling. Can you imagine any other person making such a statement before selling you something? Form 17 is the disclosure of problems with real estate, and there shouldn't be anything else to discover on your own.
Aloha pumehana,
Brian and Mary
Lynnwood, WA\Discovery Harbour
RE: I hate disclaimers like this - oink - 12-20-2008
quote:
Originally posted by Fishboy: Information here is deemed reliable but not guaranteed...
In many instances I would agree with you about Form 17, Brian and Mary. However, there are often times when a property is being sold that the seller doesn't know a thing, and Form 17 isn't going to be worth anything to the buyer. Some examples: The true owner has died, and the "estate" or executor is selling the property who has never lived in it, it's a short sale and the owner doesn't give a hoot anymore, it's an auction on the courthouse steps, or it's a bank owned property the bank has hired a Realtor to sell. Their (bank) disclosures tell you plenty of what they don't know, not what they know. The disclosure is only as good as the conscientious seller filling it out. I'd hate to see someone looking to purchase a property to expand it or use it for a purpose the seller said the buyer could use it for or do, only to find out after he's bought it that he can't. That's why a buyer needs to do his research and/or pay someone to do it for him. It's also a liability issue, which is another reason for the caveat to buyers. Make sure you know what you are buying. Concerning, your thoughts on
quote:when was the last time you read the literature that came with a prescription? Talk about disclosures. Unfortunately, in our world today, lawsuits abound, and disclaimers are everywhere.
anyone who makes a statement that qualifies the product or service they provide, doesn't have complete faith in what they're selling,
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: I hate disclaimers like this - John S. Rabi - 12-20-2008
It has nothing to do with the MLS system. Of course all MLS in the country have a disclaimer like this, since MLS is an independent third party and can't be held liable for information submitted by the agents. The Hawaii Revised Statues requires ALL the Sellers to provide a Sellers Disclosure Statement (four printed pages!) for ALL residential properties even if their agents are lazy ones. [
]BTW, the said disclosure statement has a "NTMK" ("Not To My Knowledge") answer option for those sellers who are just as lazy as their agents. [}
] (Or for estate sales and such.)Aloha,
John S. Rabi, GM,ARB,BFT,CM,CBR,FHS,PB,RB
808.989.1314
http://www.JohnRabi.com
Typically Tropical Properties
"The Next Level of Service!"
RE: I hate disclaimers like this - missydog1 - 12-21-2008
Fishboy, I think you should relax. This is a common statement that has been around for years.
Some agents use it automatically. Other times you see it in the cases oink described where for some reason there isn't much information on the condition of the property,
Also remember that with rentals, the seller hasn't been living there and doesn't always know what things may need attention.
How could disclosure provide all you need to know? Even the homeowner who is diligent may have no idea the roof is ready to start leaking ... that's what inspectors are for.
Then there's the big issue of whether everything is properly permitted and the uses are legal, or they are suggesting you can build something. It is up to you and your agent to talk to Planning and Building to verify, especially with an older property where there's anything nonconforming that they think is grandfathered.
John, is it still true that disclosure isn't required for vacant land?
RE: I hate disclaimers like this - Fishboy - 12-21-2008
Kathy,
I am relaxed[
], what I was commenting on is the apparent need for a real estate agent to hide their lack of knowledge in the property with a standardized legal statement.Oink made a point, or comparison, about prescriptions. The frequency of litigation over prescriptions are a separate class, or order of magnitude, from my point. If you don't trust the drug you need not take it, but the ramifications can be profound. The consequences of turning away from a property wouldn't even be noticed. Two ends of a spectrum, but they both admittedly have roots in our litigious society.
My specific comment regarded the standardized text, but my underlying sentiment is a distrust in anyone who would use that.
Aloha pumehana,
Brian and Mary
Lynnwood, WA\Discovery Harbour