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+--- Thread: Home defense (/showthread.php?tid=5422)
Home defense - Greg - 05-14-2009
OK, I can't stand the suspense. We've had people on this forum talk about the use of firearms to protect their property.
Right now, on this Island, there's a man who killed an intruder that evidently had larcenious designs on his pot plants. Are the shooter's second amendment rights more important than the victim/thief's right to due process?
Here's my take on the subject.
punatoons
RE: Home defense - Samdooby - 05-14-2009
Its how he killed him...
The thief was shot in the back,..twice...
That says he must have turned to run OR the homeowner snuck up behind him and didnt issue a warning or anything, just decided to clik clik boom...
Either way, 2 lives are ruined and once again, we are no closer to solving the gun issue in the U.S...
RE: Home defense - frankiestapleton - 05-14-2009
The law on this island is that a homeowner can NOT use greater force on an intruder than he or she was threatened with. For example, if someone came at you with a knife, you could protect yourself with no force greater than a knife, i.e. a shotgun. You could kill the intruder with the knife and not be charged but if you used a .45 semiautomatic and killed the guy, you could face charges. The guy in HOVE was apparently unarmed.
There was a farmer living in Kapoho whose family and household was constantly being harassed and threatened by his neighbor who was apparently mentally unbalanced. One night, the neighbor finally invaded the home (he'd done so before) dressed as a ninja and threatened the man and his family with a gun. The farmer shot and killed the neighbor and was not charged. He met force with equal force.
So now you know. I think it was Paul de Silva who gave me this info years ago during an interview when he was the county prosecutor.
RE: Home defense - centipede - 05-14-2009
I'll reserve comment on the first two postings until I read the findings for myself but if what they say is true (I'd sure like to know where they got the information), the shooter is screwed.
According to my interpretation of frankiestapleton's commentary on the law, a person can break into your home and charge at you, screaming, big knife raised, and if you're pointing a gun at the maniac, you'd have to use it as a blunt instrument or go looking for a knife that's equal or smaller in size than the one your attacker is coming at you with because if you shoot, you're going to be faced with legal issues and will need a lawyer and all that goes with it. Hmmm, is using a baseball bat or stick greater force than a knife??? Are you going to have time to mull the issue? Can you picture yourself sitting in court as a defendent while an eloquent procecuter argues that you are a criminal for using a bat or stick or gun butt because they are deadlier than a screaming maniac with a knife, and watching as a judge, dressed in robes and sitting before the American flag, listens with a straight face and solemnly contemplates your fate? How nuts can you get???!?!!!!!
RE: Home defense - Samdooby - 05-14-2009
http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/articles/2009/05/14/local_news/local05.txt
RE: Home defense - centipede - 05-14-2009
It is interesting to note that the hard copy of the newspaper did not carry the last paragraph of the on-line posting, which says the criminal was shot in the back.
It is also interesting to note there is no mention, neither on-line or in the hard copy, that the criminal was shot TWICE in the back as Samdooby states.
We are no closer to solving the gun issue because we are no closer in solving the mystery as to why a certain percentage of the population is made up of bad people who want to harm and steal from innocent, law-abiding citizens but as long as they exist, people must have the right to protect themselves against them. But if there were fewer laws in our free society that restrict people's rights to do as they please without harming others, there would be less crime and violence, and that's a start.
RE: Home defense - Larry T - 05-15-2009
Law or no law if some one breaks into my home he gets carried out. I will use maximum force first to stop him, and if he/her doesn't stop they get more. More than one = more force. Now I don't have any POT, but you no steel my car- truck on any thing else. I may go to jail, but people have to convict me. I would not send anyone to jail for defending his propriety, would you.
RE: Home defense - oink - 05-15-2009
If the thief wasn't in the residence but on some unattached structure, was unarmed, and was shot in the back, the resident will need to be able to justify why he thought his life was threatened and how the thief came to be shot in the back. There may be such an explanation. If you break into my home you are gambling with poor odds. If you break into my home my assumption is that my life is threatened. If I'm cornered in my greenhouse, you had better uncorner me quickly. I will not shoot a simple trespasser or petit thief who is not inside my home. Then again, I don't care where I am, if I feel my life is threatened and I can't leave you to your own problems, you will have bigger problems. If I'm a senior and you're a 6'2" 250lb youth, don't corner me and make me feel I'm in imminent danger, anywhere. I'm no longer young enough to stand for a major ass whipping, and won't. Other than when inside my own home, given the opertunity I will avoid confrontation and go the other way. Pull a knife, stick, club, large rock, broken bottle, etc. on me and you will likely find yourself in deep s**t. I won't look for a comperable knife, stick, club, large rock, broken bottle, etc.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
RE: Home defense - PaulW - 05-15-2009
"I would not send anyone to jail for defending his propriety, would you."
I would. Burglary is a vile crime and should be punished, but it's not a capital offence.
Most crooks would run if confronted with a shotgun and maybe that's what was happening here.
RE: Home defense - oink - 05-15-2009
There is a delay from perception to motor movement. It's possible the resident felt threatened when confronted by the burglar who was advancing on him. He then produced the shotgun to defend himself and sent to message to his finger, the burglar turned to flee but not soon enough for the resident's message to finger to be canceled. It's hard to second guess a situation like that. The bottom line is that when burglarizing another persons property, you're shooting craps. It would be interesting to know what the angle of entry was and from what distance, what lighting and time of day etc. If 20 yrds away then the resident may have serious problems. If 20 ft or less he should be given the benefit of the doubt. I should not be required to risk my life to allow every benefit to a felon who has placed his/herself in that position.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.